Sexism for racism not a good trade
LL (a returning MMW guest contributor!)
When Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle came out, lots of Asian men (myself included) cheered when the character of Harold (played by John Cho) seemingly crawled out of his shell and started to kick butt (though he did flinch), take names and smoke weed, which ended up with the old patriarchal Hollywood icing of “getting the girl.” Of course, bitter from Jet Li not “getting the girl” in Romeo Must Die, I was thrilled to see any representation of an Asian male who was seen as desirable to women.
But at the end of the day, that representation is still a stereotypically destructive one that says some awful things about the ways in which gender and race work. In retrospect, the film was extremely sexist — almost like an FHM for Asian guys come to life where all of their exploits were hinged upon “getting ass,” smoking weed, eating White Castle and (the only redeeming one here) standing up against racist idiots. Remember, this was the film with the chorus line of Kumar asking, “Did you let her touch your penis?”
So how then is this any different from an American Pie -type film where the main male characters plot about how they can manipulate women into having sex with them? How is this any different than Wedding Crashers celebrating the Playboy fantasies of having “sex like a man.” “Hit it and quit it” as they say?
It’s different and at the same time it’s not any different. It’s different because race adds layers to the discussion of race, privilege and white privilege here (which, for white males is the maybe-it-is-maybe-it-isn’t privilege of never having your bullshit sexuality and masculinity questioned) as the representations have different implications for Asian males.
So does this mean that if Asian males want to break free from stereotypes they then have to take cues from Single Asian Male, a blog that tries to tell Single Asian Males how to act “like a man”? I don’t think so. I’m all for having 3-dimensional portrayals of Asian men but there’s a big difference between Daniel Dae Woo hunking it up on Lost or women screaming “Ichiro!” at Safeco Field and this:
You’re a MAN! Start acting like one! Flaunt it, show it, and exercise it: ALL THE TIME! The best time to act like a man is with girls you’re NOT attracted to since you aren’t nervous and you don’t care. Flirt even if you don’t like the girl. Compliment the girl at the register, and make her feel like a woman. Act brash and crass with the waitress. Talk about sex or relationships with your female co-workers. Be aware that you are a MAN, and always make sure you’re acting like one.
More after the jump…
But we’re only getting started. The whole idea behind SingleAsianMale is in saying that these “SAM”s all have some sort of psychosis. That they’re mostly this certain way which isn’t attractive to women and that they’ve gotta change things up in order to, again, get girls.
SAMs are cerebral. They tend to be very smart and think things out carefully. This is an asset in many sectors of their lives, like at work. However, this can be detrimental when dating and courting a girl.
When dating, most girls like an unpredictable, brash, and spontaneous guy. This translates into confidence, which is sexy, and these attributes make a girl get wet in their silky panties. But, you know as well as I do that it’s very hard to be spontaneous.
God. Then, after talking about how SAMs “over-analyze” everything, it gets worse:
Don’t talk too much about asking a girl out with your friends since you’ll put the pussy on a pedestal. It’s just a girl, and YOU ARE THE MAN. You’re interested in her, and your goal is to have fun with her if she’s willing.
And then this:
Most Asian guys are short compared to guys of other ethnic group. I lucked out because I’m tall for an Asian male. I’m 6 feet tall, thank you very much. My other fellow Asian friend is 6′3! But we both still can’t dunk. Anyway, yes, Asian men are shorter. I think the smallest guys are Vietnamese guys. I’ve heard some white chicks do not like Asian men because they tend to be shorter than what they want. I’m 6 feet tall and I still can’t get a hot white chick. Hmm, maybe my height is not the reason. I’ve talked to many chicks and they’ve said one of the most important qualities they want in a guy is height, followed by intelligence, money, car, and a big cock. Joking! Now I do feel sorry for the short Asian guys…hehe, I know a few real well. Even petite tiny little Asian girls want a tall guy. I do understand though.
Number one, you “can’t get a hot white chick” even though you’re “tall”? Maybe if you stopped thinking of women, white women as trophy-pieces…
Now i’m not going to argue that most women, a vast majority of heterosexual women wouldn’t prefer taller males but is that the end of the blame game story? No. Just as well, most men, a vast majority of heterosexual men would probably prefer shorter women as partners. Either way you cut it, it’s still gender roles saying this is how it’s gotta be, this is what “looks right” because men are supposed to be taller and men are supposed to be dominant and men are supposed to protect their women and women are supposed to feel safe with a towering man over them and so on. And no, I am not saying that if you’re in a relationship where the woman is shorter than the man, the man taller than the woman you’re some sexist patriarchy loving sellout. No.
It does look a little silly when the girl towers over the man.
That’s such bullshit. It’s only “silly” if people like you think it is. You know how many people think it’s “silly” to see an Asian guy with a white girl? A white guy with a black girl?
Whoever is writing this, I feel for you. I honestly do. I know what it’s like to live in this world as an Asian male but I cannot strees this enough: this is not a good idea. There is nothing redeeming or authentic about the sort of masculinity that you’re romanticizing. Now, believe me, i’m all for breaking stereotypes but when it comes at the cost of your integrity as a person? That’s not a trade you want to make.
Do you want to imitate the shell of some Stifler American Pie fratboy or do you want to try and I don’t know, “be yourself” as cliche as that sounds. If you made a general comment about how Asian males weren’t confident because American racism devalues Asian males and thus makes them think they are less confident, then you’d have a case. If you said “be outgoing, be warm” you’d have a leg to stand on. But jesus, you’re suggesting that Asian guys walk around like they’ve each got something to prove every single day. If you want to be crass and crude and hit on a lot of women, fine. If that’s your personality, fine. But don’t sit there and try and tell me that THAT’s what Asian men have to aspire to be just so they can feel good about themselves.
Are you serious? You’re serious aren’t you. You have to pay to sit at a strip club to feel like you’re a man?
Oh wow, you outdid yourself. Just when I was about to publish this, I see you’ve written MORE. Before I give this any more time, let me just say this again, that’s bullshit. Your idea of “manhood” is wholly based on American sexism and furthered by the stereotypes of Asian males/Asian culture as being extremely misogynistic. Right there, you’re perpetuating your own Joy Luck Club stereotypes, you Amy Tan, you.
Luke’s Edits: Now, the person behind this website, bless his heart, actually wrote back to my initial post (twice) and despite some of my original shots at him which you don’t see here, he was pretty articulate and thought-out with what he had to say. However, I still don’t agree which is why i’m posting his response here.
Ha! Thanks for writing the article. Now, before you get too personal, you must understand that we are not completely serious about what we write all the time. We are fun-lovin’ guys who shoot our mouths off a LOT. Actually, all the writers are in serious relationships, and we treat our women with respect. We don’t bang chicks on the side, and we are a successful graduates who work hard at what we do.
Our point is that many Asians are immasculated in American society, and it is up to Asian men themselves to change that image. You may say it’s bullshit, but you have to understand that Asian men ARE men with the same feelings and needs as other men. (Don’t you get horny, man?) Men think about sex, and why not celebrate it? Many Asian Americans are sexually repressed due to their rigid and traditional upbringing, and there are a LOT of 30 something guys who can’t get a girl, even if they are ‘warm’ and nice and respectful. America is a very competitive society, and you can’t be passive, whether it relates to a career or relationships. Up until now, the American white media has portrayed Asian men in a negative light, and we feel it is up to us to change it. Many of us are Asian acting too much like Asians in America, but we aren’t acting like Americans. We are just empowering our boys to be more forward, more reflective, more aggressive, and be aware of how they are acting.
I do agree that a lot of what we say is sexist, it really is. But, our point is that many males are sexist, so don’t feel bad about it. It’s OK to think with your dick sometimes, since we are men. It’s part of nature. Women think with their vaginas sometimes, and it’s fine, too. Now, if this is an anti-sexist site, nothing I say will please you, but I don’t mind because I am what I am, and I don’t believe in being PC all the time.
I mean, you say that we are basing our ideas on ‘American sexism’, but Asian culture is also male-dominated. What’s a guy to do? Are you saying that women are stupid and that they are being taken advantage of by sexist American society? You don’t think that women want sex? Personally, I think you are too politically correct, and you’re uptight. Live a little, man. Do you have a girl? Are you confident? Do you have the respect of your peers? Well, we do.
ReflectiveSAM: “I do agree that a lot of what we say is sexist, it really is. […] Now, if this is an anti-sexist site, nothing I say will please you, but I don’t mind because I am what I am, and I don’t believe in being PC all the time.”
So just because everybody else is doing it, it’s OK and almost necessary for you to as well? And it’s ok for men to think with their cocks because they’re men? I don’t know about you, but one of the most insulting things someone could say to me is that i’m a simple baboon, a predictable animal whose only goal in life is to “get chicks.” Just because i’m anti-sexist but that doesn’t mean that i’m anti-sex. I think it’s fully possible to be seen as a man, to be respected in society, to have meaningful relationships with women without making women into trophy objects. You don’t believe in being PC all the time? What about all those people who call Asians “Orientals” or say that Asian men have small penises. Surely, they too don’t want to be PC all the time.
“I mean, you say that we are basing our ideas on ‘American sexism’, […] Do you have a girl? Are you confident? Do you have the respect of your peers? Well, we do.”
So let me get this straight. Because asian culture is male dominated and by suggestion american culture is male dominated, it’s OK for you to talk this way about women? If anything, aren’t you just reinforcing stereotypes about how bad Asian men are and how bad it is for women involved? I never said women don’t want sex. Just because a woman doesn’t want to be objectified and degraded doesn’t mean she doesn’t want sex. I believe, again, it’s completely possible to be sex-POSITIVE, to have relationships with women, to “be respected” without having to make catcalls at women on the street or to practice gender roles where men stalk women like some sort of prey.
You know what the number one stereotype (outside of supposed physical attributes like penis size and height) that women tell me is the reason why they don’t like/date Asian guys (though this is not meant to be indicative of all women, only a certain sample of women who, for whatever reason, feel compelled to tell this to me to my face)?
It’s that Asian men and Asian culture are both sexist. Remember? Didn’t everybody swoon when Tom Cruise, in The Last Samurai, helped Taka carry that bag of rice: “Japanese men don’t do this.” “I am not Japanese.” Making yourself out to be purposefully sexist isn’t going to help your case. It’s going to reaffirm what the world wants to believe about you. People find what they’re actively searching out for and you’re not going to be seen as these grown and sexy men, you’re going to be seen as Asians who are just rearticulating their supposedly inherent Asian culture sexism.
Lyonside wrote:
Omig… thank you for flipping on them so we don’t have to (not that I’m not tempted, really, but somehow, I think my 2 X chromosomes might get in the way of them taking anything I write seriously).
This summed it up for me, from their “response” to you:
“we treat our women with respect.”
Major problem w/ that sentence… OUR. Wow. Good to know women are still property, I’d forgotten. I’ll make a note to sign over my car and my paycheck to my husband, like the good old days.
“We don’t bang chicks on the side, and we are a successful graduates who work hard at what we do.”
What do you want, a cookie? (Chris Rock TM) You’re SUPPOSED to be faithful. You’re SUPPOSED to make something of yourself. And what one has to do with the other is beyond me. And if making something of yourself means promoting something you don’t believe in yourself, then I really wouldn’t call that successful in the grande scheme of things.
Posted 04 Sep 2006 at 9:06 am ¶
Ailurophile wrote:
Excellent post by LL, and great response from Lyonside. *applauds you*
The article that LL is responding to is a great example of “Nice-Guy-Ism.” I’m a Niiiiiiice Guyyyyyy, why don’t chicks like me? It just goes to show that women like assholes! *headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk* To paraphrase Lyonside (and Chris Rock) You’re SUPPOSED to be a nice guy! You’re SUPPOSED to be kind and considerate!
Something that bothers me about the Single Asian Man article: Why “white girls?” What about black girls, Latina girls, American Indian girls, biracial girls? I for one do not want some guy dating me just so he can prove he’s a Real Mayun and give a thumb in the eye to racist white men. I’m not a trophy, I’m a person. Please treat me like one. (As I get older, thank Goddess this attitude diminishes. I’m no longer trophy material and most guys my age are more mature.)
Finally, this posting synchronistically comes up at a time when I’ve been contemplating the much-vaunted “gender gap” in interracial relationships. If there is a gap - with Asian women dating and marrying out much more than Asian men - are non-Asian women, with their superficiality, shallowness and refusal to date short men, to blame? Or is there something else - perhaps family expectations, AM’s seen as the bearers of culture and family, or something else? Just for once I’d like to see an explanation of the gender gap (if it exists) that doesn’t involve the dweebiness of Asian men and the shallowness and pickitude of women.
Posted 04 Sep 2006 at 2:54 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:
I do think culture is an often-overlooked explanation for the gap. The expectations for daughters-in-law in Asian families
Posted 04 Sep 2006 at 8:36 pm ¶
weigooksaram wrote:
I think culture is an often-overlooked reason for the gap. In the traditional Confucian system, the woman is marrying into her husband’s family, and she is expected to care for her inlaws. I think Asian men may seek out Asian women knowing that a non-Asian woman might not want to play that role. And on the flip side, maybe some of the Asian-American women who marry white men also want to opt out of those cultural obligations.
Posted 04 Sep 2006 at 8:48 pm ¶
Anonymous wrote:
“Many Asian American women like me sometimes feel suffocated by our cultural values and traditions. Don’t get me wrong; I strongly believe in the importance of family. But being American-born, I also value my independence and self-reliance. I refuse to be told what to do and often feel restricted by my family’s expectations and pressures.
And that’s why many Asian American women are attracted to non-Asian men. There are fewer expectations and pressures in such relationships. There are no rules or traditions to live by - just a relationship based on mutual attraction.”
http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/db/issues/00/03.02/view.burgos.html
Posted 04 Sep 2006 at 11:17 pm ¶
LL wrote:
Lyonside and Ailurophile, thank you.
Re: other posts. I gotta be honest. I absolutely hate that UCLA opinion column. Just on a level of responsible journalism, starting it off with the completely, completely, unnecessary detail of “I’m attracted to white guys” says a lot, but anyways….
I just wanted to note that it’s interesting to see where the last few comments already have started to drift towards in the direction of people, Asian women (and Asian men) who choose to date and marry a certain way. People can date and marry however they want, racist practices or not, but my concern would be when we start to stereotype about Asian culture and specifically Asian men and women as having these sorts of predictable mindsets. Person A being brought up in “Asian culture” doesn’t mean A grew up in a sexist household nor does person B being brought up in “Asian culture” that happened to be sexist and oppressive mean that B will inevitably work to repeat that oppression for his/her future family.
My main ending point for the post was to say that like it or not, the actions of Asian men aren’t going to be seen the same way as those of say white men. If one hears a story about a controlling Asian boyfriend, that’s going to carry different racial connotations than hearing about “a boyfriend” who is white and controlling of his female partner. The controlling Asian male’s behavior is going to be seen as probably more sexist and indicative of some sort of overall Asian cultural patriarchy whereas the white guy is going to be seen, well, just controlling because that’s his personality. The Asian guy will always have his family, culture and race brought into question and hence it’s an easy way to blanket Asian men altogether to come up with some rationale as to why they don’t make ideal partners.
“I think culture is an often-overlooked reason for the gap. In the traditional Confucian system, the woman is marrying into her husband’s family, and she is expected to care for her inlaws. I think Asian men may seek out Asian women knowing that a non-Asian woman might not want to play that role. And on the flip side, maybe some of the Asian-American women who marry white men also want to opt out of those cultural obligations.”
>>I don’t know a single, and I mean a single Asian family who practices any sort of Eastern religion, any sort of Confucian system. Not a single one. Without a doubt, the vast majority of Asian families i’ve met are some denomination of Christian. Catholic, Roman Catholic, etc come in at number two so I think if religion is going to be implicated in such a way as to explain certain sexist practices of Asian men and consequent measures to escape sexism by Asian women, you’d have to look at the very red-white-and-blue patriarchy of big JC and the Bible. Asian folks read the same Bible as white folks or black folks.
“Many Asian American women like me sometimes feel suffocated by our cultural values and traditions. Don’t get me wrong; I strongly believe in the importance of family. But being American-born, I also value my independence and self-reliance. I refuse to be told what to do and often feel restricted by my family’s expectations and pressures.”
>>Everybody should value independence and self-reliance but your suggestion that Asian culture prevents or makes such things difficult is a little problematic because it then suggests that general American (white) culture makes independence and self-reliance wholly accessible to every and all other women. There are white women who are just as oppressed through men’s sexism but when it happens, it’s seen as some character flaw of the white man involved. His race or culture is never implicated.
“And that’s why many Asian American women are attracted to non-Asian men. There are fewer expectations and pressures in such relationships. There are no rules or traditions to live by - just a relationship based on mutual attraction.”
>>No rules or traditions? Who walks the woman down the aisle in the wedding? Whose family pays for the wedding itself? Whose last name “traditionally” gets the axe? Doesn’t that almost sound like the family of the bride is saying “by the grace of our bountiful dowry, take her away from us and give her a good life, sir!”
>>An asian man and asian woman aren’t capable of having an authentic relationship without sexism? I think that’s a pretty big write-off to make about an entire population of men who, as people like to think are somehow completely incapable of escaping from sexist backgrounds (should they even grow up surrounded by Asian patriarchy).
>>White men, black men, latino men aren’t capable of having racial fetishes? Asian women aren’t capable of having racial fetishes? White men aren’t capable of being sexist? Or there are no white men out there who think that since they make a boatload of cash, that their wives should stay home and keep house?
>>I’m not sure what the connection is between what your family expects, and the potential sexist oppression of the culture of the person you marry. Your family is going to drop the “expectations and pressures” if you marry someone who isn’t Asian? Again, the assumption is that any Asian person you marry is going to bring that sexist element to the table.
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 4:59 am ¶
Anonymous wrote:
If there is a gap - with Asian women dating and marrying out much more than Asian men - are non-Asian women, with their superficiality, shallowness and refusal to date short men, to blame? Or is there something else - perhaps family expectations, AM’s seen as the bearers of culture and family, or something else? Just for once I’d like to see an explanation of the gender gap (if it exists) that doesn’t involve the dweebiness of Asian men and the shallowness and pickitude of women.
Ailurophile, the answer to your question is what you suspected echoed in the last three comments. A sociological term that summarizes these four answers is sexism.
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 5:13 am ¶
Anonymous wrote:
LL, those words weren’t mine, they were from the article. I don’t think you read past her first sentence about white men which you didn’t like. Ignore that sentence if it bothers you but read the article carefully because what she says is very important.
“Many Asian American women like me sometimes feel suffocated by our cultural values and traditions. Don’t get me wrong; I strongly believe in the importance of family. But being American-born, I also value my independence and self-reliance. I refuse to be told what to do and often feel restricted by my family’s expectations and pressures.
And that’s why many Asian American women are attracted to non-Asian men. There are fewer expectations and pressures in such relationships. There are no rules or traditions to live by - just a relationship based on mutual attraction.”
http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/db/issues/00/03.02/view.burgos.html
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 5:26 am ¶
Ann wrote:
Ailurophile:
“Why “white girls?” What about black girls…?”
Okay, A. I’m sure you meant well, but here’s the gist:
Do not send any man my way or the way of any black woman in America.The fact that you have to ask this question speaks volumes about the men of the world, inthat they have been brainwashed into believing that white women are the epitome of beauty. White women are not the epitome of beauty. White women have not cornered the market on beauty. White women are not the sole bearers of beauty.
All women hve beauty no matter what their race. But, since these things in this article are showing their brainwashed mentality, saying that they should show interest in black women willonly add more hell to the lives of black women.
Any time you have to try and convince someone todo something that they do notwant to do, the battle is automatically lost. And I do not want some man of another race to “be” with me just because he felt he had to.
Thanks to the white man doing a successful job in raising white women up on a pedestal, after he(the white man) has raped, bastardized and mongrelizd his way across the world, every man out there in the world considers white women above,beyond and better than even the women of their own races.
I do not want any garbage like the men discussed in this article coming my way. Please, A, don’t send trash like this my way or the way of any black woman. We black women have hadenough shit and garbage in our lives, starting with white men, now some brainwashed black men, and now this garbage here, all of whom think with their tails.
I f you realy want to help us black women, A, lobby for things that will help us black. Just please don’t send any shit our way.
We don’t need any yellow shit in our lives, we don’t need any red shit in our lives and we don’t need any brown shit in our lives.
If you (white man, black man, yellow man, red man or brown man) cannot see the beauty that black women hold, then you are a brainwashed mockery of a man.
And since many of these men think with their tails that is where their brains are; down there between their legs.
And as a result of that, most of their brains have been ejaculated from their bodies by now.
So,please, Ailurophile, don’t. Black women do not need to have men convinced to see our beauty. The fact that these men, and manyothers brainwashed like them can not and will not see our beauty, inside and out, says a whole lot about how weak-minded and self-hating they are.
Thanks, but no thanks.
(Sorry for the profanity, but if a man’s a real man, he will acknowledge the beauty of black women because he willhave seen for himself our beauty no matter how brainwashed this society of America is in what it considers the model of beauty and what a beautiful woman should be.)
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 6:00 am ¶
Luke wrote:
Apologies for the mistake, “Anonymous.”
I did read the full article and everything she wrote, beyond some obvious statements about media representations, I still think is full of crap. The Newsweek article isn’t anything great either so it’s basically crap about more garbage.
If I don’t like that sentence, you want me to just ignore it and read on? “Oh honey, just eat around the green peas, I promise it’s good for you!” I would appreciate it if you could refrain yourself from talking down to me.
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 7:53 am ¶
weigooksaram wrote:
I am *not* saying that white people aren’t sexist. My dad, for example, is really sexist. What I’m saying is that Asian parents (generally) expect a lot more of their kids and DILS than white parents do. When my SIL visits my parents, she is treated as a guest in the house would be, with deference and respect. My MIL she barks orders at me. I’m not complaining. That’s just how it is.
When I talk about cultural expectations, I am speaking from personal experience. I am a white woman married to an Asian man. I love my husband very much and I do not regret marrying him at all, but at the same time when I got married I didn’t really understand what it meant to be a daughter-in-law in an Asian family. Yes, I’m speaking in generalizations, and no it’s not true for everyone, but it is for many of us.
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 9:28 am ¶
Gandalf Mantooth wrote:
LL:
great stuff that. That’s the Western world’s view of AF out marrying pretty well summed up, and it is self-congratulatory.
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 9:58 am ¶
Ailurophile wrote:
“Ann: I apologize. Looking at what I wrote and reading what you wrote in reply, I realize that what I said was insensitive and clueless.
The intersection of racism and sexism renders much of what ought to be a love relationship fraught with other issues in many cases, alas. I was, however, bothered by the article’s “I wanna white trophy girlfriend to prove I’m a real man, cuz I’m a Niiiiice Guyyyy” attitude. It was suspicious that “dating out” was framed as “dating a white woman only.”
Reading the comments on dating/marriage is interesting. In particular, LL’s remark that when a white man is sexist, that’s seen as an individual attitude (”oh, that’s just Larry, what a pig he is”) whereas when an Asian man is sexist, that’s a reflection on his whole culture (”oh, that Larry - what a pig - typical Asian man!”).
It could be that non-Asian women buy into this and avoid Asian men for this reason. Of course, this raises the question of who, in relationships, does the choosing. I don’t buy that women do all the choosing - it’s a nice convenient way to blame women for being shallow - but of course, men don’t do all the choosing either. Where there are racial gender gaps in dating/marriage there has to be some kind of social dynamic at play among both men and women.
I just do not want to hear endless complaints about how shallow women are, how they only want tall/muscular/monied men. Plenty of short, skinny, poor men get married! The adenoidal drone of the “niiiiiiice guyyyy” and his eternal complaint that women only want jerks and that’s why he can’t get any is like fingernails on the chalkboard of my mind. Whatever the race!
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 11:13 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:
Heh.
I have an aversion to any guy who calls himself a “nice guy.”If you’re a nice guy, it should be apparent, you shouldn’t have to advertise it.
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 2:13 pm ¶
Merq wrote:
Great post (and comments), LL!
Posted 05 Sep 2006 at 5:28 pm ¶
ananymous wrote:
Tall only exist if there is short, tall with respect to who? to an ant? no! you feel tall which respect to others who are short!!!
Posted 11 Sep 2006 at 7:47 pm ¶
DAB wrote:
“Don’t talk too much about asking a girl out with your friends since you’ll put the pussy on a pedestal. It’s just a girl…”
THE pussy? IT’S just a girl??? I don’t care if they are joking around or not
Posted 13 Sep 2006 at 3:43 am ¶
DAB wrote:
“Don’t talk too much about asking a girl out with your friends since you’ll put the pussy on a pedestal. It’s just a girl…”
IT’S just a girl??? Way to go SAM, you sound just like those serial killing freaks on CSI. Now I know where they get their inspiration from!
Posted 13 Sep 2006 at 3:47 am ¶
DAB wrote:
Sorry for the double posts, my pc is acting up.
Posted 13 Sep 2006 at 3:48 am ¶