Comments on: Cultural appropriation and the politics of hair http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/ Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:26:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: bray http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-18197 bray Thu, 07 Sep 2006 21:34:52 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-18197 actually, i believe it to be quite important to cite historical examples: is not the very argument used by those accusing others of appropriation that which says "OUR ancestors did such and such a thing, and therefore WE are the rightful inheritors of this culture"? there are a plethora of concrete historical examples that disprove any ridiculous notions of cultural ownership over dreadlocks by one ethnic, political or cultural group - be it rastafarians, black nationalists, celts, pols, aztecs or otherwise (yes, gandalf, not all of them were wearing "dreadlocks" per se; some called them by different names and associated them with things other than religion. but for the sake of the debate lets abstain from word wars and agree to call this style of matted hair "dreadlocks"). obviously, dreadlocked hair takes on different meanings from group to group, which is what makes it understandable when some people take offense to whites adopting the style for fashionable reasons, whereas for them it is a matter of religious culture or political nature. however, there is no reason for the unfounded accusations of whatever faction against whatever-other faction that the latter is stealing or appropriating aspects of the formers culture. it is as ludicrous as accusing any non-italian who eats italian food of appropriating the very much food-centered culture of italians. lets get real here, guys. though dreads are not devoid of meaning, they do not have only one meaning. actually, i believe it to be quite important to cite historical examples: is not the very argument used by those accusing others of appropriation that which says “OUR ancestors did such and such a thing, and therefore WE are the rightful inheritors of this culture”? there are a plethora of concrete historical examples that disprove any ridiculous notions of cultural ownership over dreadlocks by one ethnic, political or cultural group - be it rastafarians, black nationalists, celts, pols, aztecs or otherwise (yes, gandalf, not all of them were wearing “dreadlocks” per se; some called them by different names and associated them with things other than religion. but for the sake of the debate lets abstain from word wars and agree to call this style of matted hair “dreadlocks”). obviously, dreadlocked hair takes on different meanings from group to group, which is what makes it understandable when some people take offense to whites adopting the style for fashionable reasons, whereas for them it is a matter of religious culture or political nature. however, there is no reason for the unfounded accusations of whatever faction against whatever-other faction that the latter is stealing or appropriating aspects of the formers culture. it is as ludicrous as accusing any non-italian who eats italian food of appropriating the very much food-centered culture of italians. lets get real here, guys. though dreads are not devoid of meaning, they do not have only one meaning.

]]> By: Gandalf Mantooth http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13095 Gandalf Mantooth Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:00:09 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13095 Well, no jlnli, people call many things "dreadlocks" that aren't dreadlocks. Also, just because a thing existed prior to another thing doesn't mean the second thing was appropriated from the first. You really don't have to find some sort of historical support for your position, especially in this case the examples you site give more power to the kind of cult. app. accusations we're talking about. Well, no jlnli, people call many things “dreadlocks” that aren’t dreadlocks. Also, just because a thing existed prior to another thing doesn’t mean the second thing was appropriated from the first. You really don’t have to find some sort of historical support for your position, especially in this case the examples you site give more power to the kind of cult. app. accusations we’re talking about.

]]> By: brad http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13046 brad Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:40:25 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13046 Have to agree with the rest of folks on this one: I think everyone takes something from other cultures, sometimes in insignificant ways, like hair, or in more demeaning ways. If we live in an interconnected world, ideas flow and cultures meld for good and bad. That is natural. Have to agree with the rest of folks on this one: I think everyone takes something from other cultures, sometimes in insignificant ways, like hair, or in more demeaning ways. If we live in an interconnected world, ideas flow and cultures meld for good and bad. That is natural.

]]> By: jlnli http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13041 jlnli Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:53:07 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13041 Re this part of the article: Dreadlocks are rooted in Rastafarianism, a pan-African spiritual/religious movement for healing and decolonization for Africa and African people worldwide. That's not really true is it? Haven't dreadlocks been worn by South and Central Asian religious people for centuries? Certainly before their was Rastafarianism - actually I've read (although I don't know how accurate the source was) that the ancient Celts wore dreads - if that's true then telling white people that they're appropriating is fairly silly. And really, weren't the Rastafarians appropriating different elements of different African cultures? I've heard Ethiopians talk about Rastas as being stupid in their beliefs, so it's not as if they're in a position of never having adopted foreign cultures either! Re this part of the article: Dreadlocks are rooted in Rastafarianism, a pan-African spiritual/religious movement for healing and decolonization for Africa and African people worldwide.

That’s not really true is it? Haven’t dreadlocks been worn by South and Central Asian religious people for centuries? Certainly before their was Rastafarianism - actually I’ve read (although I don’t know how accurate the source was) that the ancient Celts wore dreads - if that’s true then telling white people that they’re appropriating is fairly silly.

And really, weren’t the Rastafarians appropriating different elements of different African cultures? I’ve heard Ethiopians talk about Rastas as being stupid in their beliefs, so it’s not as if they’re in a position of never having adopted foreign cultures either!

]]> By: Rachel S http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13027 Rachel S Tue, 01 Aug 2006 03:29:53 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13027 So there are other folks, besides myself, who disagree with that dreadlock and mohawk piece. I thought I was the only liberal willing to disagree, now I see I have at least two other folks who agree with me. I ticked off MaxJ when I disagreed--he dedicated a whole post to me, even got a few personal jabs in. LOL!! I agree with a few points in the piece, but I just think it is way to racially essentialist. Gandoff's point is about not being rastifarian is really important. The piece almost comes of as saying crossing cultural boundaries is Ok, but crossing racial boundaries is not. And that was my whole problem, perhaps I didn't make that clear or maybe if I did people still disagreed with me. So there are other folks, besides myself, who disagree with that dreadlock and mohawk piece. I thought I was the only liberal willing to disagree, now I see I have at least two other folks who agree with me. I ticked off MaxJ when I disagreed–he dedicated a whole post to me, even got a few personal jabs in. LOL!!

I agree with a few points in the piece, but I just think it is way to racially essentialist. Gandoff’s point is about not being rastifarian is really important. The piece almost comes of as saying crossing cultural boundaries is Ok, but crossing racial boundaries is not. And that was my whole problem, perhaps I didn’t make that clear or maybe if I did people still disagreed with me.

]]> By: Merq http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13026 Merq Tue, 01 Aug 2006 02:15:43 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13026 Hit the nail on the head, dcase and gandalf. However, I do have a problem with white people who avoid caring for (washing, etc) their locs because of what they had to do to it to get it that way. I've known far too many white people who were terrified of soap and water for fear of unraveling their hard-won locs... besides, filthy, foul-smelling locs were all the more "boho." (no kidding. i knew a guy who said that... now THAT'S offensive appropriation.) Hygiene knows no race. Hit the nail on the head, dcase and gandalf.

However, I do have a problem with white people who avoid caring for (washing, etc) their locs because of what they had to do to it to get it that way.

I’ve known far too many white people who were terrified of soap and water for fear of unraveling their hard-won locs… besides, filthy, foul-smelling locs were all the more “boho.” (no kidding. i knew a guy who said that… now THAT’S offensive appropriation.)

Hygiene knows no race.

]]> By: Adrianna http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13017 Adrianna Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:32:21 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13017 well don't we all somehow do a little of cultural appropriation. Sometime it is respectful and other times it is not. In my Country we have appropriated American culture and I must say I hate it. My cousin came from Haiti and here he was acting like he was some stereotypical rapper, the worst is that my freind who is african American saw him and had this" Is he for real" look on is face . It's like come on dude your Haitian not that, is that the image you want to give to the world. As for whites appropriating people's of colors culture there are many reason for that. 1 they might be truly interested about learning fro Non whites culture without it being a fetish or insulting 2 they might feel that "white " culture is bland, A friend of mine felt this way He said something on the line of" you have a specific identity, you speak creole your food is authentic, as an American I don't feel that i have that" . I have to say I was confused that he felt this way, since there is such a thing as American Music, food ect .... I guess that being a foreigner I always saw everyone born in this country as American regardless of their color or cultural backrounds 3 They might in fact be racist well don’t we all somehow do a little of cultural appropriation. Sometime it is respectful and other times it is not. In my Country we have appropriated American culture and I must say I hate it. My cousin came from Haiti and here he was acting like he was some stereotypical rapper, the worst is that my freind who is african American saw him and had this” Is he for real” look on is face . It’s like come on dude your Haitian not that, is that the image you want to give to the world. As for whites appropriating people’s of colors culture there are many reason for that.

1 they might be truly interested about learning fro Non whites culture without it being a fetish or insulting

2 they might feel that “white ” culture is bland, A friend of mine felt this way He said something on the line of” you have a specific identity, you speak creole your food is authentic, as an American I don’t feel that i have that” . I have to say I was confused that he felt this way, since there is such a thing as American Music, food ect …. I guess that being a foreigner I always saw everyone born in this country as American regardless of their color or cultural backrounds

3 They might in fact be racist

]]> By: Gandalph Mantooth http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13013 Gandalph Mantooth Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:31:08 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13013 Nah, this is where I disagree with free slave, and where the cultural app. thing is getting way out of hand. I'm AfAm, and one of those people sorta like dcase describes. I wear locs. I'm not a Rasta. Is it okay for me to wear locs? I shave and wear locs. Rastas don't shave. I'm getting a free pass on those inconsistencies because of the color of my skin. Shouldn't some Rastafarian, true nyabinghi, be blogging about how I can't wear locs because I'm not wearing them for the right reasons? I've been considering posting about how the cult. app debate has busted out over the Internet. I actually started a long piece but I haven't had a chance to finish . . . Nah, this is where I disagree with free slave, and where the cultural app. thing is getting way out of hand. I’m AfAm, and one of those people sorta like dcase describes. I wear locs. I’m not a Rasta. Is it okay for me to wear locs? I shave and wear locs. Rastas don’t shave. I’m getting a free pass on those inconsistencies because of the color of my skin. Shouldn’t some Rastafarian, true nyabinghi, be blogging about how I can’t wear locs because I’m not wearing them for the right reasons?

I’ve been considering posting about how the cult. app debate has busted out over the Internet. I actually started a long piece but I haven’t had a chance to finish . . .

]]> By: dcase http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13010 dcase Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:06:24 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/07/31/cultural-appropriation-and-the-politics-of-hair/#comment-13010 I disagree somewhat with the piece on dreadlocks and mohawks.I cannot speak on the Mohawks because their situation is somewhat different. However, with respect to dreadlocks, it becomes a slippery slope when you declare who can and cannot wear hairstyles (or clothes) that are not inherently offensive on the basis of outgroup membership. Moreover, how do we determine who is appropriating whose culture in this country? There has been quite a bit of cultural transmission both ways. Is it offensive for blacks to appropriate customs associated with a particular tribe in Africa or with Africans in general given that the majority of black americans are not culturally African? Finally, there are some black people who are born with straight hair and thus are not able to naturally lock their hair. Does this open them to criticism that they changed their "natural" hair to grow dreads? Yes, I agree that we should be on guard with respect to certain aspects of oppression reinforcing cultural appropriation but we must be on guard that we don't set up discriminatory double standards ourselves. I disagree somewhat with the piece on dreadlocks and mohawks.I cannot speak on the Mohawks because their situation is somewhat different. However, with respect to dreadlocks, it becomes a slippery slope when you declare who can and cannot wear hairstyles (or clothes) that are not inherently offensive on the basis of outgroup membership.

Moreover, how do we determine who is appropriating whose culture in this country? There has been quite a bit of cultural transmission both ways. Is it offensive for blacks to appropriate customs associated with a particular tribe in Africa or with Africans in general given that the majority of black americans are not culturally African?

Finally, there are some black people who are born with straight hair and thus are not able to naturally lock their hair. Does this open them to criticism that they changed their “natural” hair to grow dreads? Yes, I agree that we should be on guard with respect to certain aspects of oppression reinforcing cultural appropriation but we must be on guard that we don’t set up discriminatory double standards ourselves.

]]>