Comments on: Asian and mixed students lead the pack http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/ Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:07:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: justin http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5903 justin Wed, 29 Mar 2006 22:41:26 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5903 Sorry, I'm not being consistent. Values and morality are played out in myths. I think the ideology thing I was reffering to surrounds some class hang ups I have. The way we value primary,secondary,tertiary education/enterprises is relevant here. Someone could say somthing funny or offensive about Chinese values and communism. If you can keep pointing out the flaws in my comments I am sure you can work things out for yourself. Sorry, I’m not being consistent. Values and morality are played out in myths. I think the ideology thing I was reffering to surrounds some class hang ups I have. The way we value primary,secondary,tertiary education/enterprises is relevant here. Someone could say somthing funny or offensive about Chinese values and communism. If you can keep pointing out the flaws in my comments I am sure you can work things out for yourself.

]]> By: justin http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5902 justin Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:59:42 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5902 Taste can be ideological or it can be subjective. Nothings necessarily good or bad, but you have to think about who’s being subjected to what. Mythologies is easy reading, you will get the most benefit out of the introduction. I really like the Beginners guide comic books about Postmodernists, they’re worthwhile even if you’re familiar with all that. Taste can be ideological or it can be subjective. Nothings necessarily good or bad, but you have to think about who’s being subjected to what. Mythologies is easy reading, you will get the most benefit out of the introduction. I really like the Beginners guide comic books about Postmodernists, they’re worthwhile even if you’re familiar with all that.

]]> By: Ben http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5891 Ben Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:40:17 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5891 Thanks for the tip, justin... Barthes looks a little dense for me, but I'll give it a shot :) In the meantime, let me make sure I understand you: myths are not necessarily false, but they are bad because they stem from flawed or distasteful ideologies? Thanks for the tip, justin… Barthes looks a little dense for me, but I’ll give it a shot :)

In the meantime, let me make sure I understand you: myths are not necessarily false, but they are bad because they stem from flawed or distasteful ideologies?

]]> By: justin http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5877 justin Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:53:50 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5877 Ben, you should read some postmodernism or post-structuralism. There’s a Roland Barthes book called Mythologies. Myths are not about empirical truths they’re about cultural values. Like the ones that you site about Chinese people and immigrant children, those are part of the model minority myth. It’s not a one line confusion about genetics its an ideological thing. Ben, you should read some postmodernism or post-structuralism. There’s a Roland Barthes book called Mythologies. Myths are not about empirical truths they’re about cultural values. Like the ones that you site about Chinese people and immigrant children, those are part of the model minority myth. It’s not a one line confusion about genetics its an ideological thing.

]]> By: Ben http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5871 Ben Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:19:45 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5871 Because I want to make sure we're talking about the right myth. In all the studies I've seen, East Asian students do, actually, perform better in school than their non-Asian peers. The findings seem consistent, but my earlier request is an admission that my perspective might be limited. As I understand it, though, the myth is not simply that they do better, it's that they do better because of some genetic difference. I certainly agree that that's false, but it's not preposterous to wonder whether, for instance, the comparatively higher value that Chinese culture places on education has a positive effect on their children's school performance. Or perhaps children of immigrants take less for granted and work harder in school. Or perhaps families who have the means and desire to move from China to Scotland are disproportionately wealthy and well-educated. Basically, I think the mildest flaw of the study is the sample size. The greater flaws are 1) the study's use of national origin as its primary grouping mechanism, and 2) the article's clumsy collapsing of those real but irrelevant national-origin categories into the social construct of race. Because I want to make sure we’re talking about the right myth.

In all the studies I’ve seen, East Asian students do, actually, perform better in school than their non-Asian peers. The findings seem consistent, but my earlier request is an admission that my perspective might be limited.

As I understand it, though, the myth is not simply that they do better, it’s that they do better because of some genetic difference. I certainly agree that that’s false, but it’s not preposterous to wonder whether, for instance, the comparatively higher value that Chinese culture places on education has a positive effect on their children’s school performance. Or perhaps children of immigrants take less for granted and work harder in school. Or perhaps families who have the means and desire to move from China to Scotland are disproportionately wealthy and well-educated.

Basically, I think the mildest flaw of the study is the sample size. The greater flaws are 1) the study’s use of national origin as its primary grouping mechanism, and 2) the article’s clumsy collapsing of those real but irrelevant national-origin categories into the social construct of race.

]]> By: Meg http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5866 Meg Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:21:44 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5866 "Ah, good to see that the model minority myth and the hybrid vigor myth are alive and well, even across the Atlantic. (sarcasm, of course) The Herald reports that among fourth-graders in Scotland, Chinese students and mixed students are ahead academically" A bit touchy are we? In defence of the statisticians since we haven't seen the report, the newspaper may have drawn out the racial aspects to create a more interesting story. Group differences can be of interest so long as they're not used to suggest that there's some special 'smart gene' only asians have. It's more to do with socialisation/family expectations/priorities, etc. "If it is indeed a myth that Asian students perform better in school than their non-Asian counterparts, can you point me to the data that refute that finding? " Why would you want to know that there's evidence showing asians are better performed than non-asian? To understand what they are doing to perform better or to confirm a racial stereotype? “Ah, good to see that the model minority myth and the hybrid vigor myth are alive and well, even across the Atlantic. (sarcasm, of course) The Herald reports that among fourth-graders in Scotland, Chinese students and mixed students are ahead academically”

A bit touchy are we? In defence of the statisticians since we haven’t seen the report, the newspaper may have drawn out the racial aspects to create a more interesting story. Group differences can be of interest so long as they’re not used to suggest that there’s some special ’smart gene’ only asians have. It’s more to do with socialisation/family expectations/priorities, etc.

“If it is indeed a myth that Asian students perform better in school than their non-Asian counterparts, can you point me to the data that refute that finding? ”
Why would you want to know that there’s evidence showing asians are better performed than non-asian? To understand what they are doing to perform better or to confirm a racial stereotype?

]]> By: Ben http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5853 Ben Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:37:18 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/03/27/asian-and-mixed-students-lead-the-pack/#comment-5853 If it is indeed a myth that Asian students perform better in school than their non-Asian counterparts, can you point me to the data that refute that finding? I haven't seen any, but I might just be looking in the wrong places. If it is indeed a myth that Asian students perform better in school than their non-Asian counterparts, can you point me to the data that refute that finding?

I haven’t seen any, but I might just be looking in the wrong places.

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