Comments

1. Luke wrote:

   Remember, you can’t talk about race unless you’re yelling at the top of your lungs!

   Posted 08 Mar 2006 at 11:56 pm ¶

2. Eva wrote:

   Is it just physically impossible for you all to simply be appreciative of the fact that they at least tried to make a movie addressing this issue. It seems to me that no matter how good (apparently Oscar worthy doesn’t cut it) a movie might be it just won’t cut it for you. Everything is either too stereotypical or not inclusive enough. This site has turned fom Mixed Media Watch to Mixed Media Bitch.

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 5:47 am ¶

3. Mike wrote:

   I agree with Eva. MMW has now become a forum for whiners. Get over it! The movie won an Oscar, now lets move on with life.

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 9:34 am ¶

4. Tiffany In Houston wrote:

   Thanks, Eva..You said what I was trying to get across yesterday and didn’t do very well.

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 9:41 am ¶

5. Ramen wrote:

   ^ Lol, I have a feeling that the races that got redeemed in this film liked it, while those who didn’t (only 1) don’t.

   The sad part is the lack of empathy on the part of those who “got theirs” towards the one marginalized one that didn’t.

   A lot of Asians did blog or whatever against this movie, but since we have no huge media voice none of that showed up on radar. And when we do - we get labelled as “whiners.” Just goes to show how disenfranchised we are as minority racial doormats in this country.

   Oh well, at least Yao Ming scored 38 last nite to beat the Pacers! Hoo-ha! I think we are going to have to rely more upon merit-based fields like athletics or science to prove our mettle. Let’s face it, Hollywood is all about pride and prejudices…

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 10:19 am ¶

6. Tiffany In Houston wrote:

   Ramen (cute..:))

   What part about Ludacris and Larenz Tate being some car jackers was redeeming for me as a black woman? That’s not cute. AT ALL.

   I don’t get enjoyment out of the Asian people (I want to say Korean) being portrayed as some human traffickers. It disturbed me, and Crash hopefully made some other people DISTURBED as well. It made me think that’s for damn sure. And a good movie should.

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 10:38 am ¶

7. Big Tookie wrote:

   I enjoyed it and so did alot of my friends who vary in different racial and social classes.

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 10:49 am ¶

8. Ben wrote:

   I think the MMW reaction is similar to psychologists complaining about Rain Man (best picture in 1988).

   People who spend a good deal of time studying and reading about certain subjects develop a higher standards for commentary on them. Popular treatments are often jarringly simplistic. And while they do raise awareness, it is for that very reason that we must be hyper-conscious of the message.

   Indeed, neither Rain Man nor Crash showed the somewhat mundane but delicately nuanced reality that real people experience, they show highly-charged, sensationalized, and heavily-edited versions of it.

   But this is Hollywood. Neither film claimed to be a documentary. And each on its own merits as a film was - at least arguably - deserving of its Academy Award(s).

   HOWEVER, that a civil rights organization honors Crash as well tells me there’s considerable disagreement within our community about the net value of the film. That is why the Humphrey award is worthy of its own post, and that is why Crash’s detractors are so vocal in our opinions of it.

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 10:54 am ¶

9. John wrote:

   “What part about Ludacris and Larenz Tate being some car jackers was redeeming for me as a black woman? That’s not cute. AT ALL.”

   Damn.
   Ramen’s OBVIOUS point was:
   Ludacris & Larenz Tate’s story was not the ONLY African American story in “Crash”… fuck it.
   This is sad! I can’t believe this has to be explained. AT ALL.

   Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 11:11 am ¶

10. Tiffany In Houston wrote:

    Well since you are the arbiter of all things racial, JOHN, why don’t you EXPLAIN IT?????

    Last time I checked I can glean whatever I want from a comment and respond to a comment however I want.

    So too fucking bad my comment didn’t met your expectations.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 11:34 am ¶

11. Luke wrote:

    What is wrong with you people Part I:

    “Is it just physically impossible for you all to simply be appreciative of the fact that they at least tried to make a movie addressing this issue. It seems to me that no matter how good (apparently Oscar worthy doesn’t cut it) a movie might be it just won’t cut it for you. Everything is either too stereotypical or not inclusive enough. This site has turned fom Mixed Media Watch to Mixed Media Bitch.”

    ##At my high school, for martin luther king jr day…they did a dramatic reenactment of the newscast saying that king died. that was it. that the assembly. can’t you just appreciate the fact that THEY TRIED!??? Yesterday during a class presentation, one group in my class said that “hapa” people were “confused and had to struggle.” can’t you appreciate the fact that THEY TRIED!??? My friend work at REI, and at their company party, they gave out the “pocohontas” award to the one filipino “brown” woman there. You know what, at least when it came to embracing the native people THEY TRIED. If you can’t appreciate that, eva, then you’ve probably just turned into a “bitch.”

    “I agree with Eva. MMW has now become a forum for whiners. Get over it! The movie won an Oscar, now lets move on with life.”

    ##You too? So once something happens, and especially when Hollywood says so, we can’t talk about it? Hey John, I heard someone called you a racial slur at work, GET OVER IT!

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 11:52 am ¶

12. Tiffany In Houston wrote:

    You know Luke I feel you, I truly do..but I also think that nit picking something to death doesn’t do much fot it. It’s like beating a dead horse.

    I think the discussion here is every enlightening and I look forward to the articles posted here but instead of saying how much Crash ’sucks’ and admittedly it’s not perfect, we need to realize that until people of color get more power behind the camera and the ability to greenlight more pictures that ‘would get it right’ then nothing will ever be totally correct enough.

    That of course doesn’t mean you stop discussing…you never stop discussing..you just move on to the next topic.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 12:17 pm ¶

13. Merq wrote:

    ^what Luke said.

    However…
    “Just goes to show how disenfranchised we are as minority racial doormats in this country.”

    I must say that if one of us black folk said this, eyes would roll til’ they fell out of their sockets. I don’t know if you really want to start playing “Racial Totem Pole” here, Ramen. But I warn you, it’s not a good idea.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 12:26 pm ¶

14. oh my! wrote:

    I can’t believe how pompous some of you people are. You all try to speak with such authority as if you are the vessels of truth. People have a right to disagree. Is it really necessary to reply with sarcasism and name calling. I have been lurking this board off and on for quit some time. Some of you posters are on here everyday going off on tangents…as if you are holier than thou. Is this your way to get self-esteem…seeing your “witty” pharses and insults in print. If you like Crash then fine. If you don’t like Crash then that’s fine too. Its just a movie…written, acted, produced and directed by some human beings who might ten years later wake up and decide that they could of done things differently. No movie is perfect, no person is perfect. If the Academy at the Oscars wanted to give this movie top honors then they have a right to do just that. If a Civil Rights Group wants to give the movie an award, then they have the right to do so also. I used to enjoy coming to this board but some of you are just so contentious. It’s one thing to disagree with someone, its another to start hurling insults and profane language. Wow, that’s a way to get someone to buy your argument.

    PEACE!

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 1:31 pm ¶

15. Gasp!! wrote:

    Luke says: “What is wrong with you people Part I:”

    Oh my GOODNESS. You have a “Part II” coming out? Watch me hold my breath for that one…NOT!!!

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 1:49 pm ¶

16. Mary wrote:

    I can actually see both sides of the argument. No we shouldn’t passively accept Hollywood’s too often biased depiction of us or anyone ethnic group, for such depictions have the power to cause viewers to believe such depictions are true. However I do find it ironic that when non-black minorities have beef with Hollywood’s depiction of them they immediately expect sympathy, however when black minorities have beef with Hollywood’s depiction of them such complaints are too often dismissed. I have had a lot of Asians say some pretty atrocious, racists things to me about African-Americans…so excuse me for not getting too upset about this movie.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 2:19 pm ¶

17. John wrote:

    “What part of Ludacris and Larenz Tate… was redeeming for me as a black woman?”

    Nothing. Nothing AT ALL.
    I mean, if those were the only images of African Americans in “Crash”- with it’s specific theme of healing race relations in America… it would be a little odd. Or seem dubious. Maybe even downright insulting.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 3:10 pm ¶

18. Daniel wrote:

    Well, this topic has certainly gotten a lot of reactions. I don’t think that Crash is worthy of any civil rights award at all; in fact, I find that the fact that it got one to be amusing. It did not present anything new, it did not explore any revolutionary ideas. It was just a story with some idealized characters using pretty bad dialog. I feel sorry for anyone going to this movie in the hope that they will get some great insight on race and relationships. That being said, the Oscar voters certainly have every right to vote for this movie if they feel it’s worthy. The National Council of La Raza Monica Lozano, likewise, has every right to grant whatever awards they like to whomever they wish.
    I just though the movie was boring. The scenes did not fit together that well and the plot was, well, pretty weak. If you enjoy stereotypes you will definitely enjoy Crash. On a positive note, I do think that the title is appropriate. I got a nice 15 minute nap during the second hour of the film, too, so it wasn’t all bad.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 3:15 pm ¶

19. Mary wrote:

    “On a positive note, I do think that the title is appropriate. I got a nice 15 minute nap during the second hour of the film, so it wasn’t all bad.”

    Good one Daniel. I love it when we can find something positive out of something negative

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 3:36 pm ¶

20. Luke wrote:

    What is wrong with you people: part II

    “I used to enjoy coming to this board but some of you are just so contentious. It’s one thing to disagree with someone, its another to start hurling insults and profane language. Wow, that’s a way to get someone to buy your argument.”

    For the record if you had read all the comments in this thread, I used the “insult” and “profane language” in quotes specifically because Eva and Mike came out and STARTED to throw insults at MMW. I really, really have a problem with people who use that sort of gender specific language when about someone who is in actuality making CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. If MMW was run by men, you wouldn’t have used “bitchy” but the word itself implies that MMW is just sitting there taking pot-shots and crying over phantom fouls like LITTLE GIRLS or something. THat’s a bunch of crap. And secondly, you all imply that MMW and everyone else should be grateful to get any sort of racial awareness table scraps from Hollywood. THa’ts a bunch of crap too because if that were the case, we’d all praise Imitation of Life as the greatest race coming of age story ever told and never demand better.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 4:17 pm ¶

21. Luke wrote:

    “I have had a lot of Asians say some pretty atrocious, racists things to me about African-Americans…so excuse me for not getting too upset about this movie.”

    -So let me get this straight, since in your real life some Asian people are racist to you, you could give a crap about asian american representation problems in the media?
    -My friend’s store has gotten robbed twice by black men. and my other friend was raped by a black man. i thus have no problem with blacks being portrayed as criminals and rapists in the media. cause you know what, three people speak for everybody!!!! i have no sympathy for black men at all!! yeaaa!!!!

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 4:22 pm ¶

22. Merq wrote:

    “i thus have no problem with blacks being portrayed as criminals and rapists in the media. cause you know what, three people speak for everybody!!!! i have no sympathy for black men at all!! yeaaa!!!!”

    Luke,
    While I agree with your point, I must clarify that black men neither need nor desire anyone’s SYMPATHY. I believe (or hope) “empathy” was the word you were looking for.

    Oh yeah, and…

    EVERYBODY, CALM THE FUCK DOWN.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 5:25 pm ¶

23. mira wrote:

    i dont have any sarcastic comments or anything, but i do have to say, i really liked crash. for one, its like the first mainstream movie ive seen that deals with more than just black and white, and even if there were some problems with that, it’s a start. i also did think it was realistic, in an allegorical way, but still…i mean when i was watching it i could definitely think of people i knew who had said/thought the things said by each and every character. so i think realistic is a good word, it wasnt utopian and it was exaggerated a little (ok, maybe a lot), but in terms of representing the various takes on race, i think it worked. also, maybe im just pessimistic or something, but in my experience people do not talk about/deal with race unless they have to/”crash” into it. for mixed people or people in interracial social circles this may happen more often, but there are still tons of people who dont want to think about race, who dont care about racial problems, and dont think “race” has anything to do with them. i appreciated this movie because it does force you to think a little bit, and thinking a little bit is better than trying to ignore everything. hope that makes sense…
    

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 5:33 pm ¶

24. Mary wrote:

    Luke, I didn’t say I don’t give an absolute crap. I said I’m not going to get too upset by this controversey. Yeah I think its unfortunate that the movie wasn’t too some peoples liking, but it doesn’t change the fact that many Asians are homogenous people who harbor racists attitudes towards African-Americans. There was an Asian girl in my class who was accepted in a program aimed at increasing the number of minorities in academia. The program was aimed at economcally disadvantaged youth. The girl’s father was an engineer, her mother was a housewife. From the looks of their surburban home they didn’t look too disadvanted to me. Yet somehow she got in. And to add insult to injury, the girl one day asks me “what race would you be if you could choose?” When I told her I found her question insulting she told me, “why don’t you be Native American because they need more peeps.” She then told me that if she had her way she would want to be black because “black girls have fun.” Yes I know not all Asains are as ignorant as she, but in the numerous experiences I have had with them I can’t say I particularly trust them. Many Asians harbor racists attitudes towards iblacks in spite of their tendency to co-op black culture and ride on the backs of black people via their participation in Affirmative Action. Economically they are in a better position than African-Americans in this country so excuse me for not having much sympathy when a movie that people will most likely forget about in a couple of months fails to depict them to their liking. It happens to African-Americans all the time. I mean my goodness, you would think someone commited murder. You think this is the first movie that has engaged in racial stereotypes??

    Also, I wasn’t the poster who used the word”bitchy” in referenece to MMW. That was Eva. Looks like you are the one who doesn’t know how to read posts properly.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 5:53 pm ¶

25. Mary wrote:

    I second that Merq, though is your language necessary?

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 6:03 pm ¶

26. Ramen wrote:

    the girl one day asks me “what race would you be if you could choose?” When I told her I found her question insulting she told me, “why don’t you be Native American because they need more peeps.” She then told me that if she had her way she would want to be black because “black girls have fun.”

    That sounds more innocent than derogatory. I mean, she herself joked about wanting to be Black, instead of Asian. For a naive high schooler?, that is fairly benign, IMO.

    BTW, overall, Asians have typically been DENIED minority status in undergrad admissions since we are already numerically over-represented due to our leading test scores. I know, because I was one of the very few National Merit Finalists at my high school and my high school counselor told me flat out, “Asians don’t qualify as minorities because you all test score too high.”

    Anyways, we can all trade anecdotes all day about racism from any group (even including your own), but that is ultimately a poor rationalization for excusing bias in this movie. I mean, if they wanted to show some snotty, Whitewashed Asian girl (see heightist, racist Korean model on ATM) - that’d be far closer to statistical reality at least than the tired snakehead immigrant-smuggler - which is actually pretty damn rare.

    Anyways, kudos for Merq, Luke, etc being cool heads on this. Mary - You got issues, hun. Please seek help.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 6:34 pm ¶

27. Merq wrote:

    That sounds more innocent than derogatory.

    Dude, do you Mi yourself? You’re doing exactly what you’re complaining about being done to you.

    I mean, she herself joked about wanting to be Black, instead of Asian. For a naive high schooler?, that is fairly benign, IMO.

    I mean, she herself joked about wanting to be Black, instead of Asian. For a naive high schooler?, that is fairly benign, IMO.

    It seems you’re a little too willing to just accept that without looking into exactly why she wants to be Black. Dude, you know better.

    Mary & Luke:
    While I understand what each side is saying, I can’t say I agree 100% with either (big surprise, right?). I definitely agree that Crash did a piss-poor job of representing East Asians, and they have a right to be upset.

    But I also agree that that happens to blacks all the damn time, and each time it happens, non-blacks adopt a more virulent “damn these whiny black people” stance. I refuse to believe that because someone gets maligned very frequently, that he therefore should lose his right to protest because it’s “the way things are.” Because others are desensitized to that fact, doesn’t mean the one on the receiving end will (or should) be.

    And people, please stop with the “sympathy” talk. Asians don’t need it from us, and blacks don’t need it from others. Sympathy is fairly easy to “synthesize,” and is pretty-much an easy cop-out to avoid having to actually analyze our feelings on race.

    Mary,
    I will say, though, that I’m also glad Crash won mainly because of how uncomfortable America is with the subject of race, and I maintain that that was the underlying reason for much of the backlash it experienced. At first, people felt they had to like it publicly, “or I’m racist.” But many were relieved at the first sign that they weren’t the only ones.
    Note the way it was reviewed/discussed on many online forums when it first came out, and notice how the tone of the discussion changed as award season began.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 9:15 pm ¶

28. Merq wrote:

    Oh yeah…
    but I definitely don’t think the movie deserves so prestigious an award.

    Posted 09 Mar 2006 at 9:16 pm ¶

29. Ramen wrote:

    Merq - portraying Asians as bad driving snakeheads is obviously derogatory.

    An Asian teen joking that she wants to be a Black girl cuz they “have more fun,” is far more benign in my book.

    A comparable analogy would have been had she asked if she knew who her daddy was or if her hair is real, etc.

    But just associating Black girls with “having fun?” That might have even just been some contrived generic pretext to give Mary a compliment.

    So, is this really the best excuse Mary could come up with to rationalize her racist bias against Asians? Gimme a break…she’s obviously got MUCH deeper issues than that (reminds me of Hot97’s Miss “Tsunami Song” Jones accusing Miss Info of thinking she was superior cuz she was Asian) - and it has little to do with some Asian girl thinking how much fun Black girls have.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 12:29 am ¶

30. Merq wrote:

    sorry for the weird post. i’m a web designer, dammit. i know that HTML “mis-taggery” was not my fault!

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 12:31 am ¶

31. Merq wrote:

    damn. i really should learn to present all my thoughts in one post.

    “but I definitely don’t think the movie deserves so prestigious an award.”

    I was referring to the civil rights award, and not the best picture oscar. i’m verrrry happy with the oscar.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 12:33 am ¶

32. mr guy wrote:

    I’m not too surprised Crash won an award from a civil rights group.These days, it seems any movie that talks a little bit about race gets praised.I guess some people feel it’s better then nothing.Anyway, just how this topic turned into asians vs blacks is beyond me………

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 1:54 am ¶

33. Merq wrote:

    Ramen,
    you make absolutely no sense, you know? When did I even address the portrayal of “Asians as bad driving snakeheads?” You seem to be the king of Straw Man arguments on this blog. So, having made that realization, I suddenly have no interest in tackling the rest of that post (or any you may put up in the future).

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 8:28 am ¶

34. Ramen wrote:

    Merq - that was the Crash portrayal that you tried to equivalate with some Asian girl telling Mary that “Black girls have more fun,” remember?

    But, I don’t see the comparison.

    I could even see one had the girl said she wanted to be Black so she could have a ghetto booty, rhythm & soul…but to have fun?

    Look, bunettes say they bleach their hair all the cuz “blondes have more fun.”
    And blondes themselves brag about “having more fun” all the time.

    So, where’s the beef? Is this so different?

    Bottom line is MARY HAS SOME INGRAINED CHIP ON HER SHOULDER AGAINST ASIANS - and is grasping at straws to justify why.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 11:54 am ¶

35. Merq wrote:

    OK, I’m a sucker, ’cause I’m about to respond to you once again.

    Dude, when did you see me even discuss anyone’s comparisons between the “black girls having more fun” and the Crash portrayal? This is what happens when people don’t read. They make false accusations and use words like “equivalate.”

    Despite your inability to read my previous posts in full, I’m going to hope you read this one:

    If you look upthread, I clearly stated that Crash did indeed do a “piss-poor job of representing East Asians, and they have a right to be upset.” I neither compared nor equated that to the “black girls have more fun” comment. Most rational beings would be able to see that I tackled each issue very much as its own issue.

    All I asked you to do was to examine your own response to the “black girl” comment. How have black women been represented historically in the media? What part of the Black Woman dichotomy could possibly be responsible for this belief that black girls have more fun. And what kind of “fun” are we talking about?
    Come on, dude. You’re on MMW. You’re expected to be capable of some form of critical analysis here.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 12:28 pm ¶

36. Mary wrote:

    You know Ramen, at the risk of wasting my time let me break things down for you to make you perhaps appreciate why what this girl said to me and some other African-American females was inappropriate.

    First, her statements can not be chalked up to “high school naievte” considering she was a TWENTY-FOUR YEAR OLD GRAD STUDENT WITH A B.A. FROM ONE OF THE TOP 25 UNIVERSITIES IN THIS NATION.

    Second, her statement about “Native American’s needing more peeps” was insensitive given the tragic reason (translation: GENOCIDAL CAMPAIGN) for why their population numbers in this county are so low. Considering my paternal grandfather is half Cherokee, EXCUSE ME FOR FINDING THIS 24 YEAR OLD WOMAN’S STATEMENT INSENSITIVE AND OFFENSIVE.

    Third, yeah I’m sure I would have found her statement “I want to be black because black girls have more fun” a compliment, IF I WAS SOME JUNGLE BUNNY WHO LIKED TO DO NOTHING MORE THAN ENGAGE IN LACIVIOUS SEX WHILE I GET DOWN ON THE DANCE FLOOR. Excuse me for thinking better of myself and my black sisters and brothers. Isn’t that what most non-black people try to do, exoticize us and show how we’re these sensual creatures given over to vice. Considering all the Red Light districts in Tokoyo, Thailand and Vietnam this girl didn’t need to “become black” in order to have fun. Seems to me Asians know how to “get down” on their own.

    But I’m sure you will comeback with some weak argument about how I’m overreacting and have a “chip on my shoulder.” If I have a chip on my shoulder, guess who put it there? Your failure to appreciate the racial connotations emanating from this girl’s statements proves my point, that some Asians deal in racialism themselves. So why should I get all hot and bothered because some Asains are upset with how they are depicted in a MOVIE of all things, when they can’t even see me and my people as human beings. Its not that I don’t empathize with Asians who are discriminated against, but I’m not about to get upset because a MOVIE won an award and some Asians have a problem with that. But I’m sure you’re too myopic to understand where I’m coming from. Yeah like this girl, you can whine about the racial stereotypes applied to Asians (Oh, the injustice!), but like her you can’t appreciate the racial stereotypes applied to African-Americans, because you’re too busy engaging in and perpetuating such stereotypes yourself. I’m all for people who are for me. You are obviously not for me, so I’ll be myoptic too and give short shrift to your own racial complaints.

    PEACE!

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 1:53 pm ¶

37. Ramen wrote:

    “IF I WAS SOME JUNGLE BUNNY WHO LIKED TO DO NOTHING MORE THAN ENGAGE IN LACIVIOUS SEX WHILE I GET DOWN ON THE DANCE FLOOR”

    Wow, talk about reading a novel into a comment?!

    So, is that what the common cliche, “BLONDES HAVE MORE FUN,” “really” means as well??? Cuz if so, then why do so many girls bleach their hair blonde for that very reason? And so many natural blondes happily brag about it? I think I have YET to find a blonde who takes offense to that cliche - or interprets it the way you just did.

    Or what about the more generic, “GiRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN?”

    WOW, so this whole time, “fun” really meant having lascivious sex on the dance floor like a jungle bunny? OMGzzzz!!! How naive I’ve been this whole time! DOH! Thanks so much for setting me straight, Mary!

    And yet that is your excuse for excusing the blatantly negative Asian stereotyping in Crash?

    Look, last thing I’m ever going to do is to take the fall for some elitist banana girl - but if that’s the best you could come up with - I can’t honestly say it’s a whole lot…

    Merq - I was responding to your comment:

    Dude, do you Mi yourself? You’re doing exactly what you’re complaining about being done to you.

    Although, I must confess I do not know what “Mi” means.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 2:38 pm ¶

38. Mary wrote:

    This is what happens when you try to be anonymous.

    In my earlier post I stated that the girl and I were enrolled in a program aimed at helping “disadvantaged youth” which has given some the impression that I and this “girl” were in highschool when she made these statements . This is incorrect and I take responsibilty for the confusion. I was rushing whan I wrote my post and did not want to give too much information/clues so as to inadvertently reveal my and/or this girl’s identity. So no, this girl and I WERE NOT highschool students when she made these statements. This girl and I were in Grad school. But the program WAS aimed at minorites who came from econimically diadvantaged backgrounds. We had to give an interview demonstrating economic hardship. How she passed out of the interview I have no idea considering her parent’s middle-class wealth.

    So, as much as I hate to, I do apologize to Ramen and anyone else who mistaken assumed I was speaking of high schools kids speaking off the top of their heads. In spite of this, I still believe this WOMAN’S statements highly offensive and Ramen’s reaction to them offensive as well.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 2:38 pm ¶

39. Mary wrote:

    Ramen your hopeless. Your analogies are faulty and your mind too myopic for my taste. You obvious do not know or care to know the concerns of African-Americans.

    Have a good life.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 2:51 pm ¶

40. Ramen wrote:

    “Mary” - it’s easy to remember the truth, hard to remember lies…isn’t it?

    Based upon your inconsistent fibbing and lack of critical thinking, perhaps the better question is how YOU got into that “Grad school program?”

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 3:11 pm ¶

41. Merq wrote:

    “Merq - I was responding to your comment:

    Dude, do you Mi yourself? You’re doing exactly what you’re complaining about being done to you.

    Although, I must confess I do not know what “Mi” means. “

    RE: “Mi”
    see above comment about dodgy HTML screwing up my post. but yeah, i meant to ask if you could actually *hear* yourself.

    And I wasn’t equating the two situations; I was showing you how dismissive you were (and still are) to Mary’s argument, while continuing to complain about how Haggis & Co. didn’t seem to care about the representation of Asians in “Crash.”

    Get it now? Good. Moving right along.

    Sadly enough, I guess I’ll have to explain this “fun” thing to you like you were a child. Because you seem painfully unwilling to acknowledge injustices against any other people but your own.

    1. BLONDES HAVE MORE FUN:
    Are you going to claim to be oblivious to the “buxom blond slut” stereotype? Let me spell it out for you. “Blondes have more fun” because they are supposedly big-breasted, dimwitted tarts whom men fawn over, and who treat life like it’s All You Can Fuck buffet.
    Clear?
    Does EVERYONE who uses the cliche mean it that way? No. But is that the origin of the expression? Yes.

    2. BLACK GIRLS HAVE MORE FUN:
    Mary explained this perfectly, so only someone completely closed-minded would choose to ignore her statements. But let me give it a shot.
    The Black Woman Dichotomy I spoke of earlier referred to the depiction of the black woman as either a hulking, asexual Mammy, or an amoral, oversexed Jezebel. “Scientific” documents offer “proof” of the African female’s “primitive sexual nature,” and were used to justify the dehumanization of people like Saarjite Baartman.
    If you don’t know about her (and I’m guessing you most likely don’t), look her up. I will, however, tell you that for much of her adult life, she was exhibited naked in a cage as some sort of freakish sexual curio at circuses around Europe. Even after her death, her genitals were excised and put on display for decades in a French museum.

    Got it now? Good. Moving on.

    3. GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN?:
    Surely, you’re smart enough for me not to waste my time on this.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 3:20 pm ¶

42. Mary wrote:

    I was anticipating a remark like that. So much for being honest.
    Now why don’t you go hang yourself out to dry you wet noodle.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 3:41 pm ¶

43. Wow! wrote:

    Have we just been “Crashed?”

    Both ramen and mary make some good points, but like merq I don’t agree with them 100%.

    I do agree with mary that ramen is a little too dense to note the racists undertones of her classmate’s remarks. Racism can be very subtle. Isn’t that what some are arguing about crash, that its racism was too blatant and therefore unrealistic (i haven’t seen the movie yet, but plan to after reading these posts.:) ) I read in another thread the offense some took to the nbc’s coverage of apolo ohno during the olympics…something about the commentarors remarking “watch the Korens conspire against ohno.” There seemed to be some dispute over whether the commentators statements were racists. Some posters of asian decent argued they were, some other posters said they weren’t. I guess it depends on the listener and his/her particular experience. As a black woman I would find this girl’s statement about “black woman having more fun” offensive because I have heard other people make blanket statements like that perpetuating the idea that black people have a monopoly on non-intellecual pursuits–music, entertainment, sports etc. I also thought the remarks she made about Native American pretty inappropriate. And what fool goes around wishing they were another “race” anyway? let alone asking someone else what race they would like to be. girlfreind seems to have some self-esteem issues. Ii guess if she said she wanted to be white because she thinks white people are more attractive that would be okay too huh?whatever. I think its safe to say that we all have diffenet experiences that shape our reactions to things.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 3:58 pm ¶

44. anon wrote:

    As a Native American I found that girls comment pretty vicious.

    Ramen I noticed you didn’t tackle that one.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 4:01 pm ¶

45. Me thinks... wrote:

    this conversation is dead.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 4:02 pm ¶

46. Ramen wrote:

    ^ Again, I am not going to be the fall guy for some uppity Asian banana girl who probably hates Asian guys like me anyways. Believe me, Asian men have taken the brunt of their racial-chauvinist bullshyt for decades now. It’s nothing new…but Orientalist America still indulges their BS because of their inability to see them as anything more than fragile, victimized Lotus Blossoms - who can’t possibly be offenders. But, that’s a separate rant.

    My simple point here is that “Black girls have more fun” may not be any more demeaning than “blondes have more fun.”

    Imagine a brunette telling a blonde that she wishes she was blonde because “blondes have more fun.” Well, it happens all the time - and most blondes take that as a light-hearted compliment - as it is probably intended.

    Merq - They say 5/6 of American blondes have some chemical enhancement for that. This includes a large number of Black female celebs too. So, I suppose they all desire to be “big-breasted, dimwitted tarts whom men fawn over, and who treat life like it’s All You Can Fuck buffet”? I think your over-cynical interpretation here is BS, quite frankly. Most of the “bad” rep for blondes is generated by fake bottle-blondes who are intentionally playing up the “dumb blonde” stereotype for social advancement, anyways…

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 4:26 pm ¶

47. not so fast... wrote:

    ra-men says:”based on your inconsistent fibbing and lack of critical thinking…”

    i’ve read all the posts twice and i don’t see no inconsistent fibbing. her statements about what program they were in doesn’t take away from her argument that the girl’s comments were racists.

    stick to the argument ramen, and stop throwing jibes.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 4:26 pm ¶

48. Ramen wrote:

    I was showing you how dismissive you were (and still are) to Mary’s argument, while continuing to complain about how Haggis & Co. didn’t seem to care about the representation of Asians in “Crash.”

    Well, IMO Mary’s experience here is highly debateable at the very least. Had she given a more clearcut, concrete example, I wouldn’t be forced to challenge it. However, a lot of her indignation is due to her own projections - unlike the Crash portrayals which required no imagination whatsoever. I don’t think tolerance means accepting everything in blind faith - that’s simply called stupidity.

    Not to mention all these rebuttals are stuck in outdated pre-feminist Madonna-complexes where sexually-loose women are demonized.

    But, HAVE ANY OF YOU TURNED ON YOUR TV’S OR GONE OUT CLUBBING WITHIN THE LAST DECADE? Young women these days are doing ALL THEY CAN to look like porn stars and bed Mr. Goodfella. But oh, come Monday morning they get insulted if you imply that they enjoy casual sex? Gimme a f’n break people. That’s the problem with these clinical discussions - they qucikly lose touch with reality like a boat taking off from the dock…

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 4:49 pm ¶

49. Merq wrote:

    “As a Native American I found that girls comment pretty vicious.

    Ramen I noticed you didn’t tackle that one.”

    Let’s hope (although it may be a stretch, considering who we’re dealing with here) he didn’t because it was obvious, even to him, just how vicious that was.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 5:48 pm ¶

50. Michael wrote:

    Well I really don’t know where to begin. I thought this thread was about Crash, which I haven’t seen…now I see the thread is about blacks and asians. Paraphrasing another poster, have WE been crashed? This thread has certainly piqued my interest in seeing the movie. As for whether Mary’s friends comments were racists…yeah I can see she and Merq’s point. I mean why is it just black girls who ‘have more fun.’ I also agree that the mere fact this girl would ask such a ridiculous question (’what race would you be’) indicates that she has some major racial hangups. I’ve never ever considered being another race, certainly not so that I can have fun. But then I’m not a girl, so maybe girls have more fun than guys and I should wish that I was a girl…nah I don’t think so.

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 5:58 pm ¶

51. Hey Merq! wrote:

    I always enjoy your posts

    You show no mercy.

    Keep it up!!

    As for Ramen noodle…do you always think you are right?

    Posted 10 Mar 2006 at 6:01 pm ¶

52. Merq wrote:

    Hey Merq!:

    Wow, thanks. That was nice of you.

    Posted 13 Mar 2006 at 9:54 am ¶

53. Mr. Bigg wrote:

    Ramen I think you are generalizing too much. Not all women dress like porn stars and engage in casual sex. Maybe the women you hang out with…but I think I will leave it at that because you obviously don’t want to see things from another person’s perspective. You’re too paternalistic for your own good.

    Posted 13 Mar 2006 at 2:52 pm ¶

54. Anonymous wrote:

    I see mary’s point that it the young girls’ statements could be offensive. But I also am not convinced or buying Mary’s bias regarding her own bias. Ramen may not sympathize or empathize or actually believe that her statements were meant maliciously or rudely. Maybe his benefit of the doubt defense is that it is unclear. But the problem is mainstream culture is very rude actually all the time. I am an asian female that has grown up in america and i have racist, derogatory, condescending, mocking, cruel remarks and treatment that i have recieved like breathing air. It is just pervasive and always was and I got it from everyone. So I don’t buy her single spotlight of “asians being racist towards african americans.” Because african americans from my experience are much more racist towards other ethnic groups than the majority of asians from my experience and most times blatantly so because of the general covert consensus is that asians are really not american anyways. Just a few months back an african american male living in the same apartment complex called me a monkey and laughed. I did nothing to him to bring on this ridiculous insult. A few weeks later I was at the local grocery store trying to use a public phone when a group of african americans outside were shouting and ranting on so loudly I could not even hear myself speak. I didn’t even ask them to lower their voice but told them that I needed to use the telephone letting them know, and when looking back on it more politely and humbly than I normally would to my own friend out of social respect. I immediately was tummeled with racial and derogatory slurs telling me to go back to my “bamboo hut” as they laughed and got their kicks. Its obvious the majority of these commenters are not idiots so I don’t know who you think you’re fooling. Everyone is racist and asians are not more racist that others, thats just not only projection but scapegoating. In actuality, Ramen’s original reply to you was true. You made a lame attempt to justify your lack of empathy towards asians because of your own prejudices, negative experiences and dislike and conclusive judgements. Reread your *first* post, you made it pretty clear where you stood and why. But guess what? heres a reality check so can others which is fine. But I wouldn’t go around pointing self-righteous, hypocritical fingers when you do the same. You really just seem to be racist yourself actually. Interesting, isn’t it?

    Posted 31 May 2006 at 6:59 am ¶

55. Anonymous wrote:

    dang keys, hit send accidentally before proofreading above, meant “mary’s honesty regarding her own bias.”

    Posted 31 May 2006 at 7:01 am ¶

56. Anonymous wrote:

    Mary,

    one sidenote. Should I justify misrepresentation of other races based upon my personal negative experiences with them? In conclusion for someone as simple minded as yourself, though you are very polished in the way you present yourself but deceptively self-centered yet ‘polite’. Its called bs, not truth. I take back that most of the comments are from the cerebral, but they’re dumb as nuts as they didn’t even catch the obvious, you turning the argument around deflecting the issue with attacks on the ‘other’ blah blah blah. You really don’t have good critical thinking skills but then neither did they. I post the question to you again, should I base my moral compass on my personal prejudices, feelings, and subjective moral “weight” of another ethnicity??? huh? Should I not care about another’s rights because they have offended me? If so then I have deep backload of grievances and justification to not “empathize” or care about or even see your viewpoint or care. You are advocating prejudice, thats how it starts. Condemning a group based on your personal feelings. You really are dense, not Ramen. Ramen doesn’t care if you care, evidently you are quite selfish and arbitrary in your motives. Very common. I will say what Ramen was actually too polite to say. You don’t have a chip on your shoulder about asians, you harbor resentment and prejudice toward them. I’m sure Ramen has had negative racist experiences even from african americans but he does not take the accusatory and judgemental tone and stance that you took lady and thats a fact. He was upset about and has a right to voice his concerns over asian portrayal in the media but he did not take that further to discount or judge how others should be portrayed. Shut up, you are obviously not a very intelligent nor really that good person yourself but a way too common problem of self-interest. I have been insulted by every race and I would never make an excuse like that because this is not about you or one single person or race. You have no right to put down or minimize the concerns of another using your own experiences. That is prejudice. How dare you try to use your own personal experiences as an insult and affront to another groups or ethnicities issues, gripes or concerns! If you don’t care fine, its not your responsbility actually BUT you do not have a right to justify minimizing, suppression or misrepresentation of another because of your own personal negative experiences AS WE ALL HAVE THEM!!!! GET IT?? REALITY CHECK, REALITY CHECK. YOU ARE SELF-DISHONEST AS YOU ARE PREJUDICED *MARY*. END OF STORY.

    Posted 31 May 2006 at 7:52 am ¶

57. Anonymous wrote:

    “RIDE ON THE BACK OF BLACKS” Thats an outrageous and malicious lie if there ever was one. Asians do not ride on anyone. You seem to have a peculiar us against them sense of priviledge yourself and seem to begrudge anyone not of your own or “kind” having or getting any priviledges probably because of your own ingrained yet socially and morally accepted sense of group self-interest. There is actually nothing inherently wrong with this but you are wrong in subtly placing and projecting blame on asians for faults that do not exist. I’ve heard this type of prejudice against asians many times WOMAN as this is nothing new especially among african americans. It is very commonplace for african americans to begrudge asian americans and be suspicious of any favorable success as in *general* african americans tend to believe it has to do with some type of ‘handout advantage’ that is unfair to them or they do not recieve when it reality they just may take advantage of the situation better. Either way, its disgusting and just wrong because in the end no matter what handup or handout is initally given, be it loans etc asians usually end up working very hard and earn their way. It is not asians fault for being or trying to be successful nor is it right to suggest that ‘ASIANS RIDE ON THE BACK OF BLACKS’. You disgust me, your ill will is just below the surface. How about the truth that most top asian students get bumped in favor of less qualified applicants because of affirmative action. Get it through your pigheaded skull that it is because you were forcibly brought to this country that you get to ‘RIDE’ more, and justifiably so as in america needs to make reparations and do all they can to give you opportunities because of illtreatment. But don’t begrudge another’s wish or right for life, liberty and happiness as asians really have done nothing to you nor are you the judge of what they deserve, should or should not get. Its obvious and common that african americans and most ethnic minorities with the exception of asians tend to not look at other ethnic minority groups as competition and others when they are failing but fail to look at themselves(or their self-interests). You might try that. Asians are not perfect, nor are you or your people or any other race or creed for that matter nor are they responsible for your people’s situation, problems and don’t deserve to be scapegoated for your problems.

    Posted 31 May 2006 at 8:45 am ¶

58. Anonymous wrote:

    I’M STILL ANGRY AT THE BIGOTED HYPOCRITICAL STANCE OF MARY’S POST. BECAUSE THE FACT IS, I CAN BET YOU A MILLION DOLLARS THAT BLACKS SAY MUCH MORE “ATROCIOUS” THINGS TO ASIANS OR OTHER ETHNIC MINORITIES THAN MOST ASIANS DO. THAT IS A FACT. ASIANS GENERALLY ARE NOT THAT RUDE OR NASTY. I’VE HAD THEM CALL ME THE MOST OPENLY PERVERTED, NASTY, MALICIOUS, DEGRADING THINGS! I DON’T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT YOUR GODDAMN PITY PARTY! AND ANOTHER THING I NOT ONLY HEAR ABOUT HATE CRIMES DONE TO MINORITIES BUT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT LADY THAT *YOUR* PEOPLE COMMIT MORE OF THEM THAN MINE AND AGAINST US ALSO. I HAD NOT ONLY AN UNCLE BUT A FRIEND’S RELATIVE SHOT BY A BLACK PERSON SHOT AND KILLED AS THEY WERE STORE OWNERS IN ATLANTA AND THEY WERE NOT EVEN RACIST AGAINST BLACKS OR WALKED AROUND FOLLOWING THEM BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE SO NOT DEALING IN REALITY BY FLIPPING AND PROJECTING THAT “ASIANS ARE MORE RACIST AGAINST BLACKS” MAYBE THEY JUST DON’T LIKE THEM MUCH BUT WHO CAN BLAME THEM CONSIDERING ITS A VERY DIFFERNT CULTURE AND MOST ARE SO RUDE AND PREJUDICED THEMSELVES AND THE TRUTH CAN REAR ITS UGLY HEAD RIGHT??? BECAUSE THAT STEREOTYPE JUST FOREMENTIONED IS TRUE! HA~!

    Posted 31 May 2006 at 6:15 pm ¶

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