Guess my mixture?!?
CVK
Good Lord. There’s an entire LiveJournal community of people who post pictures of themselves so that others can “guess” their “mixture.” Here’s how the founder of the community defends, erm, describes the site:
Guess My Mixture! is a fun photo community created so that people of all ethnicities (mixed or unmixed - all are welcome!) can post pictures of themselves so that members of the community can guess what mixture they are. This may seem like a strange community, but oftentimes this is the question that many people in ethnic communities will ask each other. It is a part of our search for self-identity, makes the question “What are you?” suddenly fun and less offensive, and also opens up discussion in a more creative way.
Riiiight. It’s all about taking back the power from the people who ask “what are you.” Or is this really an excuse for these mixed folks to indulge in some self-fetishizing? Perhaps they should quiz themselves by checking out the “Top 10 Signs That You’ve Come Down With the Self-Fetishizing Bug” that we shared on Episode 2 of Addicted to Race.
Luke wrote:
“mixture” sounds like this person is folding some flour, eggs, and sugar together for a cake or something.
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 1:11 pm ¶
Melody wrote:
How in the hell is it automatically self-fetishizing if you just post pictures to let others guess your ancestry? And why should something be “defended” that is of no harm to anyone?
For example, the community doesn’t claim “that mixed people are prettier/smarter/healthier than non-mixed people”. It’s just happy photo-posting.
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 2:26 pm ¶
Mika wrote:
As the founder of this lj community, I would like to clarify a few issues here. I realize if you look at this community from a superficial level, yes, it will seem like self-festishizing “camwhoring.” However, I beg of you to look at it from a much deeper level and realize that we are attempting to defy stereotypes through having people guess what ethnicities people are simply by looking at pictures. What we find out through this process is that you cannot use stereotypes to identify what ethnicity a person is, and, therefore, cannot make assumptions about anyone based on their looks alone. Many of our members have studied anthropology and offer well-informed answers to many of our other members’ queries. The majority of the members have had very negative experiences due to their “mixed” or multiracial backgrounds, and this community allows them to present their issues to a different type of multiracial community. Rather than bashing monoracials as other multiracial communities do, we simply analyze our backgrounds, experiences, and lives in order to work out some (sometimes quite serious) identity issues. Not everyone can use this site for that purpose–I’ll admit some do not even attempt to and are actually using it to show off; however, that is the actual intended purpose and that is how the moderators are trying to shape the participation in this community. The usage of “mixture” was not intended to offend. In fact, it was mainly due to the brevity of live journal names. I would ask that people actually investigate this site fully before making any judgments. We really just want to show everyone that you cannot judge people by appearances.
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 3:10 pm ¶
Mab wrote:
I tend to disagree with that. Some people just think it’s amusing for others to “guess what they are.” Granted, it shouldn’t matter in the long run, but if you believe that race doesn’t matter, you’re probably a white Republican Christian over thirty.
As awkward as it sounds, sometimes your “race” is all you really have. This rings true for me at least. I’m Native American and most of the time, I’m seen as a novelty item from some long ago genocidal past no one likes to talk about. I don’t choose to be seen this way, it’s just how I’m viewed. Either that, or I don’t “look like an Indian really.” Which in the Native community, people get told quite often.
The point is, is that there’s not “one way” were supposed to look like. Native people can tell I’m Native. Non-ndns who grew up around reservations or people with a high volume of Native people can usually tell I’m Indian also.
What I’m trying to get at is that the community shows the different faces within the confinces of the term “race.” That not all white, black, yellow, red, brown people look the same. Not all mixtures of any of those colors look the same.
I’m sure some people on there do have some kind of “Self-fetishizing” disorder as you put it. But you also have to see it for what it is and for what it is not. Our society is indeed addicted to race. We have “model minorites” and stereotypes about stereotypes. People want you to fill out your race for every form you turn in. You have to have a certain amount of minorities on certain television shows. Most people refer to someone they don’t know by their race (i.e. “You know, that white guy that sits behind you in class”). We have whole months dedicated to the celebration of race: Black History Month in Febuary and Native American History Month in November.
Race and origin are interesting to people, not only that, they are important to people. Sometimes, if you lose your race you lose who you are. I’m not saying everything should be about race, nor am I insinuating that nothing is about race. Race is often tied to culture and sometimes culture is all people have.
I’m not saying that you don’t have any points in your opinion, because of course you do. But you would have to be willing to see things from the other point of view before you ridicule someone or something.
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 6:01 pm ¶
Narulla wrote:
Well, a lot of mixed people will bych when others assume they are other races than what they are…yet in reality, I believe they secretly enjoy the narcissistic attention regardless. This contest here is the perfect example of that - actually SOLICITING guesses…
“Like OMG, I HATE it when people think I’m Hispanic or Middle-Eastern!!”"
“So, guess what I am, people! GUESS DAMMIT!”
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 7:50 pm ¶
Luke wrote:
My concern with this is that while the intentions may be good, it’s just putting information out there without fully engaging and explaining things. It’s like wearing the “everyone loves a mixed girl” t-shirt. It may have had good intentions to spark awareness, but how many people are equipped and have the energy and time to do that with strangers?
I’m not mixed but I know from hearing directly from mixed people that complete and utter strangers take a strange sense of pride in playing some Guess Who? game of racial face analysis with them. My friend works as a food server and not only do people without hesitation day after day after day ask her what she is, but they also pat themselves on the back when they guess partially right.
I’m reminded of a time i caught a moment of The Howard Stern Show. He had this stripper on and from the moment she walks in, Howard is asking what she is. Then he tells her to wait so he can guess because “i’m good at telling what people are.”
It’s a common tactic to use the “see the faces, guess their race(s), sexuality, class, etc” and then realize that “we’re all human.” But i worry that people would run with it and use it as some weird sort of legend/funnycool website-to-check-out-while-at-work to do what Howard, and MOST Americans, really, really like to do.
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 7:55 pm ¶
Laura wrote:
I think it’s a little unfair to take such a critical viewpoint of it. Most mixed people go through a process of understanding who they are. I know, at least for me, I had a phase of embracing and wearing it on my sleeve, as a reaction to being called “Other” over and over again. I think it is a way to take power over a situation you don’t have much control over.
But at some point, you do move past that. So I would never criticize people who want to celebrate themselves and each other in a safe space. It’s just a part of the process, I think; a stepping stone along the way to some place better.
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 8:03 pm ¶
Mika wrote:
Taking on such a purpose is quite staggering, and I agree that some formats are more conducive to this than others. However, I would argue that simply posting articles can be just as ineffective as trying to have discussions about these issues with total strangers. The point we are trying to make is that you cannot ascertain “what a person is” simply by looking at them. By making guesses about what a person’s ethnicity is, people start to realize by their growing number of wrong guesses that their preconceived notions of what certain ethnicities should look like are actually wrong. Whenever possible, the moderators and more aware members of the community will also point these issues out so that our membership will realize just how wrong it is to judge based on appearances. Yes, people like to use this as a way to elevate themselves as “special mixed people.” I will definitely agree with you on that. Yes, other people are rude and try to guess what other people are without thinking about how it makes other people feel, and that is exactly what was the inspiration for this community. We need to stop doing that to people and realize that there’s so much more to everyone besides what they look like and why they look that way. In fact, the subtitle to the community is “Our faces are only the beginning.” By having people actually try to guess what other people are and finding it very difficult to do, they begin to get the big picture.
However, I would still like to stress that for some, this process actually helps with self-identity issues. I have had them from a very young age, probably since the time my “best friend” in the second grade told me my mother needed to go back to Japan because she wasn’t an American citizen. Everyone has their own way of working out their identity issues; this was just a way for me to work out mine. And, you know, it actually really helped me. It aided me in my realization (but wasn’t the sole purpose for that realization) that I am beautiful regardless of “what” I look like. If it can help other people too, then it’s all worth it in the end.
Posted 04 Mar 2006 at 11:31 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>However, I would argue that simply posting articles can be just as ineffective as trying to have discussions about these issues with total strangers.
Ironic. Since “simply posting articles” often starts discussions here. Like this thread.
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 8:45 am ¶
CVK wrote:
Mika, there’s a widespread fascination with mixed people and our physical appearances. Over the past few years in which we have been actively tracking the media for related stories, we have seen many articles with titles like “Now It’s Hip to Be Multiracial” and “Generation EA: Ethnically Ambiguous.” These pieces are often illustrated with close-up photos of the faces of various mixed people. Pictures like these provoke a kind of surface-level fascination that quickly leads to objectification and fetishization.
One common experience that all mixed people share is the “what are you” question–or its cousin–the “guessing game.” Sure, there are some mixed people who relish the attention. But I think that many of us are tired of having strangers project their discomfort with our ambiguity on us, and then walking away after their discomfort has been resolved by our answer. It’s intrusive, it’s dehumanizing and it’s ultimately superficial. The way I look doesn’t have much to do with who I am as a person: my dreams, my fears, my experiences, my ambitions.
My fear is that a site like yours gives people permission to engage in the “guessing game.” After all, if mixed people are doing it amongst themselves on a site like this, why can’t a non-mixed person do the same next time he comes across an ambiguous-looking individual on the street?
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 12:33 pm ¶
Mika wrote:
CVK - People are doing this anyway–we aren’t giving anyone permission to do anything because they are already doing it. If we can educate people by showing them that asking the question “what are you” is meaningless, then we are doing our job. The point is that we are showing people that we are much more than our appearances and our ethnicities. The question “what are you” has hurt so many people and created identity issues that many people do not know how to work out on their own. If you delved deeper into this issue, you could investigate other sites such as http://www.livejournal.com/community/halfasians in which multiracial asians periodically post pictures of themselves asking if they look asian because of the confusing and hurtful responses they’ve gotten from other people. Sometimes on the road to self-discovery, we need some validation that it’s ok to look the way we do. I mean, let’s face it, people are not nice, and they can make it exceptionally hard to make one feel comfortable in his/her own skin. And while it’s all fine and dandy to say that we should just have the confidence to shake that stuff off…well, we don’t. I just don’t feel that you’ve actually tested this site before making your judgements. Even reading some of the comments shows that people are defying stereotypes, receiving validation, and starting to feel good within their own skins just by having conversations with other community members. After all, this community is no different than communities such as http://www.livejournal.com/community/halfasians, for we are treating the same kinds of issues, just in a different way.
To Lyonside- Though it is obvious you were trying to criticize me, you seem to miss the point I was making. Guess My Mixture is being criticized as an ineffective way to start discussions about these types of issues because the discussions are among “strangers” (Luke)–despite the fact that anyone who goes to this site will see this isn’t true. Well, posting articles can be ineffective as well because any discussions that are started as with total strangers as well. Hmmm, that’s interesting. So is this discussion I’m having with everyone else ineffective because it’s with total strangers? Then I guess Mixed Media Watch’s discussions are just as invalide as Guess My Mixture’s are because none of us know each other in real life.
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 3:37 pm ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>To Lyonside- Though it is obvious you were trying to criticize me, you seem to miss the point I was making
No, I didn’t miss any point. But, dude, where’s the criticism? You’re being a bit tetchy, I think… When I criticize a comment, you’ll know.
I was just pointing out that a productive discussion was starting, so MMW couldn’t be lumped in with the comment of “ineffective” posting of articles.
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 4:38 pm ¶
Luke wrote:
#1: “I mean, let’s face it, people are not nice, and they can make it exceptionally hard to make one feel comfortable in his/her own skin. And while it’s all fine and dandy to say that we should just have the confidence to shake that stuff off…well, we don’t.”
“However, I would still like to stress that for some, this process actually helps with self-identity issues.”
I sympathize with what you’re saying and god knows that people, mixed or not, need to have safe spaces where they aren’t ostracized. And I don’t know, maybe this really does help you and the visitors of the site and you all have some fun with it in the process.
#2: “Guess My Mixture is being criticized as an ineffective way to start discussions about these types of issues because the discussions are among “strangers” (Luke)”
Just to clarify, I think there’s a big difference between conversations centered on physiology and conversations about the politics of race(s), skin color, sexual orientation, representation, etc.
I mean, really. I don’t think you’re a bad person and you may be providing a “service” that some people want, but just take a look at one of the comments to a recent post from your site:
“For the Asian-ness, like already mentioned, you have straight eyelashes, and not to forget, an epicanthic fold. While the epicanthic fold could also come from being Native American, I guessed Asian because of the eyelashes. I am thereby heavily influenced by knowing a Filipino/German boy with straight eyelashes in whom I first noticed that some people have, well, straight ones.”
Now, I really hope she’s being sarcastic and really, really cynical but I doubt it. I think one thing we have to be careful of is getting hung up on facial features, body features, and this obession on human physiology. To reduce it all the way down to the shape of someone’s eye I think really does nothing except to satify someone’s curiousity. I mean, can you imagine what this discussion would lead to? Next thing you know, we’d be analyzing Hines Ward’s “black” fast twitch muscles which lead him to physical greatness. Or that Apolo Ohno’s combo of low asian center of gravity combined with white muscle density propelled him to short track stardom.
#3. I’ll never forget reading this one interview with an import model who was mixed race. The interviewer asks “what’s your best physical trait?” and she says something to the effect of “I like my eyes, but i have asian eyes and white cheekbones and asian lips so it just looks all messed up.”
I think the danger is when you start to chart things out like you’re doing a police sketch, people believe that certain things “fit” or “match up” or “go together.”
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 6:28 pm ¶
Mika wrote:
“I was just pointing out that a productive discussion was starting, so MMW couldn’t be lumped in with the comment of ‘ineffective’ posting of articles”
Which I am agreeing with you on. GMM also causes discussion, so I would consider neither ineffective.
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 6:40 pm ¶
Frank Y Pak wrote:
Article III point #2
2) Re-post your pictures and talk about your experiences as a multiethnic person. Has it caused identity issues for you? What kind of negative or positive experiences have you had because of it? What misconceptions have people had of you because of your ethnicity and/or your appearance in relation to your ethnicity?
Please be thorough in before making assessments.
Kamsa.
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 8:39 pm ¶
justin wrote:
Mika, are you aware of this site;
http://www.alllooksame.com/
I think this guy has a similar strategy to yours but it is more clean cut, straight forward and less risqué. ( I know it’s a different agenda )
Is there another part to the Lenin thread, can you post a link. That picture is effective, it made me laugh.
What your doing is complicated and clearly desired. You can’t deny the self-fetishizing element, I am guessing your doing a good job moderating it.
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 9:06 pm ¶
Mika wrote:
I feel that everyone who has commented has made a valid point in regards to the controversiality of this site. I can see where you are all coming from and I have already admitted that I realize not everyone will use that site for its intended purposes. I know what the site is truly about and I know what our goal is, and that is what matters to me. However, I no longer have control over what goes on in this site because, while I am the original creator, I handed moderatorship over to someone else months ago. My full trust is in her to carry out the goals of this community, even if the manner in which we do so is hard for some to swallow.
Justin-I was unaware of that site but I will definitely check it out :). And, if you read my earlier comments, I definitely do not deny the self-festishizing elements because, obviously, not everyone will have the same intentions that I do. Frank Y Pak, who posted a comment here earlier, is the one to ask about the Lenin thread. He’s the poster :).
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 9:38 pm ¶
John wrote:
So…
Mika doesn’t care if the site does more harm than good, because his intentions were good.
“The road to hell is paved…”
Posted 05 Mar 2006 at 11:59 pm ¶
Mika wrote:
“Mika doesn’t care if the site does more harm than good, because his intentions were good.”
First of all, this “he” is a “she.” The name is Japanese, so thank you very much for paying attention to the fact that it is not spelled like the male Anglo counterpart Micah. Secondly, I don’t believe the site is doing any harm. That’s your opinion. Why don’t you talk to some of the membership and ask them how much harm it has done them since many of them have come to us with identity issues that we have helped them deal with through this site? Oh, but that’s right, some people just don’t deal very well with unconventional ways of dealing with important issues.
I feel that I have said all I can say to you guys about what that site is really about. I can’t do anything about the fact that everyone is essentially ignoring my explanations and continuing to point the same things every comment.
To each his own. However, I find it quite funny that this is a blog designed to point out every time a mixed person is in the media, which seems like just another form of fetishizing. Aren’t we putting mixed people up on a pedastal by needing a site specifically designed to put a spotlight on them every time they are publicized?? Why do we need to know when mixed people are in the media if race isn’t what defines us???
Posted 06 Mar 2006 at 11:44 am ¶
Lyonside wrote:
>First of all, this “he” is a “she.” The name is Japanese, so thank you very much for paying attention to the fact that it is not spelled
Easy mistake. Breathe, Mika.
>Oh, but that’s right, some people just don’t deal very well with unconventional ways of dealing with important issues.
Um, no, if MMW posters don’t talk to your members, it’s because they’re not on livejournal and/or are not friended by the community (required to post, I believe, at least as of when I looked at the page - comments can be read, but not responded to).
> I find it quite funny that this is a blog designed to point out every time a mixed person is in the media, which seems like just another form of fetishizing.
You evidently haven’t read enough of the articles. This blog talks about mixed individuals, sure, but just as often talks about how mixed issues (not just people) are perceived. School admissions, the US census, IRs as portrayed in movies, radio programs, etc. It’s not just a “look, they’re mixed!” site.
Posted 06 Mar 2006 at 12:39 pm ¶
John wrote:
Yes, I know “Mika” is female. Sorry, I’m usually on this site during work breaks. You know how the letters “U” and “I” are close on the keyboard? I once sent bulk email on “shitting” down procedures.
Anyway, rather than quoting you when you admitt that there are other formats more conducive… that the site looks bad only on a superficial level (but many cases that I’ve read never went BEYOND the “superficial level”)… you seem to address everyone’s points with your hope that people will eventually “get the big picture” in the end…
I think your last paragraph on 11:44am is most revealing. “Addressing”, “criticizing”, “fetishizing”- there’s a clear difference.
Posted 06 Mar 2006 at 1:07 pm ¶
MizuWari wrote:
As a “Black” person who can “claim” a quarter “White” and a smidge of “Native American” (by way of that “Asian” landbridge of yore), I can’t see this as being either “right” or “wrong.” It just IS.
What I’m seeing is yes, a self-fetishizing, an obvious awareness of others fetishizing those selves, a search for self and/or group identity, a let’s-have-some-fun-thru-community thing and the all-pervasive, undeniable power/beauty of YOUTH (read: mostly young and female - I’m not seeing a LOT of pics of GUYS being thrown up on the web).
When you got youth on your side, this is what one does. This is how it IS. When you get OLD and wrinkly like a sun-wizened prune it’s not so much of a deal anymore unless you’re like Woody Allen or Roman Polanski. Hey, I’ve yet to see any mixed race person or otherwise throw some pix of theirselves up on a board who’s beyond 40 or 50 if it’s not a LavaLife dating site…
You’re young, you’re beautiful…ENJOY it while it lasts, yey? And those of your admirers/fetishists will enjoy looking at you, too. And who knows? Maybe if we somehow met each other thru the magic of serendipity and had a chat over some tea or beer or whatever your poison may be, we will get to know the person inside that beautiful shell and appreciate the beauty that is you even more.
Until that happens, all we have is the communication of the ‘net plus our innate desires to be liked, loved, wanted…and desired. And an inexpensive digital camera to show everyone what your mama and papa gave you. So, for whatever reason, keep on enjoying YOU.
Posted 15 Mar 2006 at 9:40 am ¶
Mieko wrote:
I guess it’s not so much that your site is offensive or perpetuating some harmful concept so much as it is just really unoriginal. Kip Fulbeck, kind of considered some sort of valid, halfie intellectual (he’s a prof. at UC Santa Barbara) came out with that photo collection of half asians. I don’t know though, is this all mixed people have to say about themselves? We’re different looking…mixed…yeah. We have photos…I mean I really do see where you’re coming from, but I guess it’s very different than say black power and thinking black is beautiful or other minority movements that have focused on reversing negative attitudes towards their race. The thing with mixed people I guess is that we’ve been seen as ’special’ and ‘exotic’ and desirable throughout our history on earth…? I wonder if we’re so ingrained with that attitude of aesthetic privilege in the racial hierarchy that any attempt we make to empower our mixed look ultimately is imbued with racist attitudes.
Honestly, my heart really goes out to mixed people who deal with that crap of being especially ‘mixed’ looking (hazel asian eyes for example) or like looking really white, or looking really asian and not being able to rep for your whole self…but I think my perception of all that really changed when I heard Carmen or Jen point out that one mixed actress was told to try out for Hispanic parts when she wanted to do Asian parts…and how whatever some social standard deems what kind of ‘face’ you are, the challenge is really saying “This mixed face is an ASIAN face.” If we all expand our ideas of what each category can encompass, then we’ll stop thinking of halfies as such an exception to the rule, ambiguous, etc. We’re apart of everyone, not divided from everyone.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that photo collections of mixed faces often hinge on this whole idea of inundating ourselves with mixed images until we ‘get it’ or something. ‘Get’ what a mixed face, ‘get’ how to pick out a part asian face…then we’re Howard Stern I guess, patting ourselves on the back for being racially aware in the most superficial of ways. There isn’t a ‘mixed’ face just like there isn’t an “asian” face or a “black” face. I’m sick of the idea that Lucy Liu is the typical asian look, it’s an idea that hurts Asian Americans. Just like thinking a typical “American” look is blonde/white.
Racial identity is a lot more psychological than physical, after all race doesnt really exist in a physical/biological way. Searching for validation by focusing on our phenotype I think is ultimately unfulfilling and easily manipulated into the completely superficial. Analyzing how our phenotype affects our interactions-much more worthwhile. I think the most interesting point you had to offer was the one about halfies needing someone to say ‘Hey, you DO look Asian.” Getting support from someone else that encourages you to feel strong about your identity is important, but I think that for mixed people, aesthetics as an entry point into that realm becomes a slippery slope into self-congratulation or anthropological/dehumanizing assessments.
Posted 10 Jul 2006 at 4:02 am ¶