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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Other&#8221; provides confusion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Leigh-Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-4608</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh-Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-4608</guid>
		<description>in South Africa we don't have the opportunity to tick multiple boxes, we don't even have multiracial. And if you do tick "other" they re-assign you where ever they feel you should fit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in South Africa we don&#8217;t have the opportunity to tick multiple boxes, we don&#8217;t even have multiracial. And if you do tick &#8220;other&#8221; they re-assign you where ever they feel you should fit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3813</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3813</guid>
		<description>@MMWTDT - lol, heartily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MMWTDT - lol, heartily.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3810</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3810</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;However, it has been well-documented that Asians like me thus did suffer double-discrimination in undergrad college admissions&lt;/i&gt;

Oh gee, I was wondering why Asians were so underrepresented at my college.  I guess this explains it.  

Either that or they all make up adjectives like "meritocritous."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>However, it has been well-documented that Asians like me thus did suffer double-discrimination in undergrad college admissions</i></p>
<p>Oh gee, I was wondering why Asians were so underrepresented at my college.  I guess this explains it.  </p>
<p>Either that or they all make up adjectives like &#8220;meritocritous.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MMW Troll Detection Team</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3808</link>
		<dc:creator>MMW Troll Detection Team</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3808</guid>
		<description>Translation of the above post: I am a poor socially disenfranchised loner who compensates for my lack of academic and economic achievements by whinig about libs and minorities.


The person who currently goes by "Yellow Peril" is probably this blog's single most active poster. His other usernames include David Horowitz, Louis Farrakhan, Hong Kong Phooey, etc, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Translation of the above post: I am a poor socially disenfranchised loner who compensates for my lack of academic and economic achievements by whinig about libs and minorities.</p>
<p>The person who currently goes by &#8220;Yellow Peril&#8221; is probably this blog&#8217;s single most active poster. His other usernames include David Horowitz, Louis Farrakhan, Hong Kong Phooey, etc, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Yellow Peril</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3794</link>
		<dc:creator>Yellow Peril</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3794</guid>
		<description>As an Asian coming from a working-class family, my high school coounselor told me point-blank near graduation that I was not legally a minority because "Asians test score too high."

Well, she was right in my case, as I did consistently test over the top 99th percentile in all standardized testing.  So, were I an underachieving minority, I would have easily scored a full ride to the brand-name university of my choice (as some of my lower-scoring part-minority colleagues did).  

However, it has been well-documented that Asians like me thus did suffer double-discrimination in undergrad college admissions - being excluded by other minority-friendly affirmative action and White-friendly alumni status.  Moreso, there's even been evidence of intentional discrimination against "overqualified" Asian applicants by admission boards attempting to fulfill racial quotas.
http://www.asianamerican.net/bios/Joe-Don.html

The system ain't racist?  Says WHO?

I guess the ultimate loser is the US as a whole though - as other more meritocritous countries surpass us in science and technology.  They'll take all our manufacturing and tech base - that we'll then have to outsource to.  Oh wait, that's already happening now!  Doh!  Congrats guilty liberals - your work is done now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Asian coming from a working-class family, my high school coounselor told me point-blank near graduation that I was not legally a minority because &#8220;Asians test score too high.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, she was right in my case, as I did consistently test over the top 99th percentile in all standardized testing.  So, were I an underachieving minority, I would have easily scored a full ride to the brand-name university of my choice (as some of my lower-scoring part-minority colleagues did).  </p>
<p>However, it has been well-documented that Asians like me thus did suffer double-discrimination in undergrad college admissions - being excluded by other minority-friendly affirmative action and White-friendly alumni status.  Moreso, there&#8217;s even been evidence of intentional discrimination against &#8220;overqualified&#8221; Asian applicants by admission boards attempting to fulfill racial quotas.<br />
<a href="http://www.asianamerican.net/bios/Joe-Don.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.asianamerican.net/bios/Joe-Don.html</a></p>
<p>The system ain&#8217;t racist?  Says WHO?</p>
<p>I guess the ultimate loser is the US as a whole though - as other more meritocritous countries surpass us in science and technology.  They&#8217;ll take all our manufacturing and tech base - that we&#8217;ll then have to outsource to.  Oh wait, that&#8217;s already happening now!  Doh!  Congrats guilty liberals - your work is done now!</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel S</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3774</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 01:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3774</guid>
		<description>The most interesting finding of that study, from my way of thinking, was the fact that most students who are of unspecified race are whites.  Of course, there is a difference between "other" vs. "unspecified," but there are not uniform standards for measuring race, which was another point the study made.

On the one hand, I am sympathetic to the frustration people with multiracial, biracial, middle Eastern, or international categories have with the data.  On the other hand, Univerisities are required by federal law to collect race and gender data, and they cannot sit down and interview every student to understand the complexity of racial identities.  There could be some sort of compromise.  I wrote about my views on this study a while back....here is the link for anybody interested. http://www.rachelstavern.com/blog_comment.asp?bi=232&#038;m=1&#038;y=2006&#038;d=1&#038;s=search</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most interesting finding of that study, from my way of thinking, was the fact that most students who are of unspecified race are whites.  Of course, there is a difference between &#8220;other&#8221; vs. &#8220;unspecified,&#8221; but there are not uniform standards for measuring race, which was another point the study made.</p>
<p>On the one hand, I am sympathetic to the frustration people with multiracial, biracial, middle Eastern, or international categories have with the data.  On the other hand, Univerisities are required by federal law to collect race and gender data, and they cannot sit down and interview every student to understand the complexity of racial identities.  There could be some sort of compromise.  I wrote about my views on this study a while back&#8230;.here is the link for anybody interested. <a href="http://www.rachelstavern.com/blog_comment.asp?bi=232&#038;m=1&#038;y=2006&#038;d=1&#038;s=search" rel="nofollow">http://www.rachelstavern.com/blog_comment.asp?bi=232&#038;m=1&#038;y=2006&#038;d=1&#038;s=search</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3756</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3756</guid>
		<description>hehe... lyonside, i think they subsequently changed the name of that particular scholarship to the "national achivement scholarship" (only black-identifying students were eligible.)

my principal called me into the hallway from class one morning and said "ben, you've been chosen as a national achievement scholar.  but are you aware that that scholarship is for... black students?"  i stared back in mild disbelief before breaking the news to him.  (man, when multiracial people talk about "coming out," we're not kidding!)  he got very flustered and awkwardly apologized.  kudos to him for not pressing the issue, i guess.  (turns out there had been no national achievement scholars at my school since he'd been there.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hehe&#8230; lyonside, i think they subsequently changed the name of that particular scholarship to the &#8220;national achivement scholarship&#8221; (only black-identifying students were eligible.)</p>
<p>my principal called me into the hallway from class one morning and said &#8220;ben, you&#8217;ve been chosen as a national achievement scholar.  but are you aware that that scholarship is for&#8230; black students?&#8221;  i stared back in mild disbelief before breaking the news to him.  (man, when multiracial people talk about &#8220;coming out,&#8221; we&#8217;re not kidding!)  he got very flustered and awkwardly apologized.  kudos to him for not pressing the issue, i guess.  (turns out there had been no national achievement scholars at my school since he&#8217;d been there.)</p>
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		<title>By: Lyonside</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3754</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyonside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3754</guid>
		<description>Nicky: how do you choose or do you alternate deopending on the form and your mood?

Funny - in HS I chose "other" for the PSATs (this was the 90s, before the new census, etc. - have no idea what the SAT and PSAT categores are like now). The PSATs get scored and lead to National Merit competitions - academically based, worth a $1000 scholarship for the first year of college - not the biggest deal, but a nice chunk.

So about 15 students in my HS class get nominated, as do I... but someone I got listed as a Negro Scholar - NEGRO? #1 question: how was it the 1990s and noone had updated the term? #2 question: who in the school notified the program that I was part black? I REALLY wanted this to be based on academics alone, since my scores were from what I could gather the same or better as the academic Merit Scholars. My family called the Princeton Review about whether "Negro" scholars had the exact same requirements (score-wise) as the plain Merit scholars. All we were told was that it was score based, but noone could tell me whether it was the SAME score.

Honestly, I think that since I happened to be the only part-black student in my grade (small school, and the lower classes were more diverse ethnically), the school wanted to show "DIVERSITY" by making sure they had a "NEGRO" scholar.

No, I'm not being paranoid... my school would have done it. When a senior in my class didn't want to go to college, the high school applied FOR HER to a community college (no essay, no fee, the school had all her info) ... just to keep their "100% College Acceptance" cred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicky: how do you choose or do you alternate deopending on the form and your mood?</p>
<p>Funny - in HS I chose &#8220;other&#8221; for the PSATs (this was the 90s, before the new census, etc. - have no idea what the SAT and PSAT categores are like now). The PSATs get scored and lead to National Merit competitions - academically based, worth a $1000 scholarship for the first year of college - not the biggest deal, but a nice chunk.</p>
<p>So about 15 students in my HS class get nominated, as do I&#8230; but someone I got listed as a Negro Scholar - NEGRO? #1 question: how was it the 1990s and noone had updated the term? #2 question: who in the school notified the program that I was part black? I REALLY wanted this to be based on academics alone, since my scores were from what I could gather the same or better as the academic Merit Scholars. My family called the Princeton Review about whether &#8220;Negro&#8221; scholars had the exact same requirements (score-wise) as the plain Merit scholars. All we were told was that it was score based, but noone could tell me whether it was the SAME score.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think that since I happened to be the only part-black student in my grade (small school, and the lower classes were more diverse ethnically), the school wanted to show &#8220;DIVERSITY&#8221; by making sure they had a &#8220;NEGRO&#8221; scholar.</p>
<p>No, I&#8217;m not being paranoid&#8230; my school would have done it. When a senior in my class didn&#8217;t want to go to college, the high school applied FOR HER to a community college (no essay, no fee, the school had all her info) &#8230; just to keep their &#8220;100% College Acceptance&#8221; cred.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicky</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3751</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3751</guid>
		<description>I fit into 3 categories,but I choose only one.I don't have to give more explanation then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fit into 3 categories,but I choose only one.I don&#8217;t have to give more explanation then.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/24/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3748</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/other-provides-confusion/#comment-3748</guid>
		<description>I think "the race question" is taken far too seriously by people who have a much more nuanced understanding of race/ethnicity than any institution could possibly accommodate for.

Race data is collected to monitor compliance with civil rights legislation, not to validate people's identity choices.  Multiracially-identifying people might feel they have to choose "other" because their true heritage is not represented, but the "true heritage" of monoracial individuals can also be far more complex than these forms permit.  (For instance, there is no separation of Scandinavian from Middle Eastern within the "White/Caucasian" category, or of Indian from Chinese in the "Asian American" category.)  The government doesn't care if you're from Cape Verde or Cape Cod - if you have "origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa" (however you choose to determine that), you fit with their definition of "Black."  And if you receive their money (Title IV funds: Pell grants, Perkins loans, Federal Work-Study), you have to play by their rules.

However, people don't generally like being told to take their identity less seriously.  So my solution for colleges is to ask the students to write a short paragraph describing their racial/ethnic background.  Then students can be as accurate as they want to be, and the college can slice the data any way they want.  

The problem, aside from the logistical nightmare of committees having to read yet another section of prose, is that this might overstate the importance colleges place on race/ethnicity in the admissions process... can't wait to see how the anti-affirmative-action community would react to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8220;the race question&#8221; is taken far too seriously by people who have a much more nuanced understanding of race/ethnicity than any institution could possibly accommodate for.</p>
<p>Race data is collected to monitor compliance with civil rights legislation, not to validate people&#8217;s identity choices.  Multiracially-identifying people might feel they have to choose &#8220;other&#8221; because their true heritage is not represented, but the &#8220;true heritage&#8221; of monoracial individuals can also be far more complex than these forms permit.  (For instance, there is no separation of Scandinavian from Middle Eastern within the &#8220;White/Caucasian&#8221; category, or of Indian from Chinese in the &#8220;Asian American&#8221; category.)  The government doesn&#8217;t care if you&#8217;re from Cape Verde or Cape Cod - if you have &#8220;origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa&#8221; (however you choose to determine that), you fit with their definition of &#8220;Black.&#8221;  And if you receive their money (Title IV funds: Pell grants, Perkins loans, Federal Work-Study), you have to play by their rules.</p>
<p>However, people don&#8217;t generally like being told to take their identity less seriously.  So my solution for colleges is to ask the students to write a short paragraph describing their racial/ethnic background.  Then students can be as accurate as they want to be, and the college can slice the data any way they want.  </p>
<p>The problem, aside from the logistical nightmare of committees having to read yet another section of prose, is that this might overstate the importance colleges place on race/ethnicity in the admissions process&#8230; can&#8217;t wait to see how the anti-affirmative-action community would react to that.</p>
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