Comments on: The lily-white world of magazines http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/ Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:00:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Mixed Media Watch - tracking media representations of mixed people http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-11525 Mixed Media Watch - tracking media representations of mixed people Fri, 07 Jul 2006 20:08:29 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-11525 [...] Of course, a lot of that has to do with the lack of diversity within the fashion industry. It’s still a white, white, white world. Yes, the last few years have seen a surge of Asian design talent (Derek Lam, doo.ri, Peter Som) and there are a handful of African-Americans who have cemented their positions on the scene (Patrick Robinson, Tracey Reese). But they’re the exception to the rule. And don’t get me started on the lack of diversity within the magazine industry. For more on that, click here. [...] […] Of course, a lot of that has to do with the lack of diversity within the fashion industry. It’s still a white, white, white world. Yes, the last few years have seen a surge of Asian design talent (Derek Lam, doo.ri, Peter Som) and there are a handful of African-Americans who have cemented their positions on the scene (Patrick Robinson, Tracey Reese). But they’re the exception to the rule. And don’t get me started on the lack of diversity within the magazine industry. For more on that, click here. […]

]]> By: justin http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3422 justin Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:17:49 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3422 I guess you've already answered that somtimes i forget to read between the lines. I guess you’ve already answered that somtimes i forget to read between the lines.

]]> By: justin http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3421 justin Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:13:08 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3421 Ben, your last statement is very well put. So, why don’t you care about how data was collected by wal-mart or how the programming logic of their recommendation tool could have contributed or been manipulated to result in that one in a million ‘glitch’ of theirs? Is ethnicity or perceived difference important when addressing discrimination? Ben, your last statement is very well put.
So, why don’t you care about how data was collected by wal-mart or how the programming logic of their recommendation tool could have contributed or been manipulated to result in that one in a million ‘glitch’ of theirs?
Is ethnicity or perceived difference important when addressing discrimination?

]]> By: Ben http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3419 Ben Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:32:51 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3419 I totally agree that a diversity of perspective is vital to most magazines. (I won't get into niche magazines that, by definition, keep their perspectives limited.) However, I think race is a crude measure of diversity of thought, especially compared to the metrics (like writing samples!) that magazines have at their disposal. As I said in the Gawker thread, a black person may be more <i>likely</i> to think differently about a certain issue than a white person, but there's no guarantee that different color skin automatically equals different perspective. (I just deleted two paragraphs about Clarence Thomas, because hopefully his name alone will suggest what I mean.) I concede point two for the NY-centric mags. I overlooked the racially diverse New York "brand" they're peddling, and how disingenuous it is for them to do so with such racially un-diverse staffs. But let's consider, then, the wealth of perspective that would be added by taking a true cross-section of the NYC metro population - not just measuring by race, but by socioeconomic status, education level, national origin, age, political philosophy, religion, sexual orientation, intraracial ethnicity... the list goes on and on. As for whether their method of measuring minority presence undermines the premise of the piece, I think you're right that "diversity by observation" doesn't have an enormous error rate. I'm just sayin... ;) I totally agree that a diversity of perspective is vital to most magazines. (I won’t get into niche magazines that, by definition, keep their perspectives limited.) However, I think race is a crude measure of diversity of thought, especially compared to the metrics (like writing samples!) that magazines have at their disposal. As I said in the Gawker thread, a black person may be more likely to think differently about a certain issue than a white person, but there’s no guarantee that different color skin automatically equals different perspective. (I just deleted two paragraphs about Clarence Thomas, because hopefully his name alone will suggest what I mean.)

I concede point two for the NY-centric mags. I overlooked the racially diverse New York “brand” they’re peddling, and how disingenuous it is for them to do so with such racially un-diverse staffs. But let’s consider, then, the wealth of perspective that would be added by taking a true cross-section of the NYC metro population - not just measuring by race, but by socioeconomic status, education level, national origin, age, political philosophy, religion, sexual orientation, intraracial ethnicity… the list goes on and on.

As for whether their method of measuring minority presence undermines the premise of the piece, I think you’re right that “diversity by observation” doesn’t have an enormous error rate. I’m just sayin… ;)

]]> By: The Assimilated Negro http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3416 The Assimilated Negro Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:10:02 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3416 Ben - is your point with 1 to ask about magazines in particular, or why should any industry care about hiring brown people? -- I guess the answer to both questions would be diversity in many cases equals knowledge. It enhances and enriches one's perspective. This may have less value in other industries, but certainly in magazines and media, the commodity is perspective. As for 2, I think the slant in the original article was these were leading New York magazines. Nationally distributed, but New York is part of their identity and "brand". In addition, you could also argue NYC is where you will find the most qualified minorities for positions, so perhaps they're ignoring the fruits in their own backyard. As for the third point, the original article is fairly transparent about the data not being acquired via the new standard for the scientific method. But does that undermine the premise of the piece? I don't think so. The gaps are so big that its clear there should be some attention paid to it. Whether some "tweeners" got chalked to the wrong side or not. The general theme to your response appears to be, "so?" ... I'm sure you are not alone in that sentiment. Ben - is your point with 1 to ask about magazines in particular, or why should any industry care about hiring brown people? — I guess the answer to both questions would be diversity in many cases equals knowledge. It enhances and enriches one’s perspective. This may have less value in other industries, but certainly in magazines and media, the commodity is perspective.

As for 2, I think the slant in the original article was these were leading New York magazines. Nationally distributed, but New York is part of their identity and “brand”. In addition, you could also argue NYC is where you will find the most qualified minorities for positions, so perhaps they’re ignoring the fruits in their own backyard.

As for the third point, the original article is fairly transparent about the data not being acquired via the new standard for the scientific method. But does that undermine the premise of the piece? I don’t think so. The gaps are so big that its clear there should be some attention paid to it. Whether some “tweeners” got chalked to the wrong side or not.

The general theme to your response appears to be, “so?” … I’m sure you are not alone in that sentiment.

]]> By: Ben http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3408 Ben Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:27:28 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3408 Oh, did I miss something? Oh, did I miss something?

]]> By: DEVIL who never wrote for the ADVOCATE http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3398 DEVIL who never wrote for the ADVOCATE Fri, 13 Jan 2006 04:20:09 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3398 "Hey random staffer..." - no, not quite. “Hey random staffer…” - no, not quite.

]]> By: Ben http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3395 Ben Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:47:32 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3395 Also, let's look at how these data were collected. "The Magazine Publishers Association doesn’t track its members’ racial or ethnic makeup .... The Observer conducted a survey of some leading New York magazines, with the help of magazine staff members who agreed to review their mastheads and provide diversity breakdowns. " i.e. "Hey random staffer, read this list and point out any minorities." So anybody who gets mistaken for white (a daily occurrence for some mixed folks like me) got labeled as white for this. Oops! Also, let’s look at how these data were collected.

“The Magazine Publishers Association doesn’t track its members’ racial or ethnic makeup …. The Observer conducted a survey of some leading New York magazines, with the help of magazine staff members who agreed to review their mastheads and provide diversity breakdowns. ”

i.e. “Hey random staffer, read this list and point out any minorities.”

So anybody who gets mistaken for white (a daily occurrence for some mixed folks like me) got labeled as white for this. Oops!

]]> By: Adspace http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3387 Adspace Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:29:39 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3387 Glossy mags are nothing more than a glorified ad section and a monumental waste of paper. They only appeal to the lowest consumerist class of society. Glossy mags are nothing more than a glorified ad section and a monumental waste of paper. They only appeal to the lowest consumerist class of society.

]]> By: Ben, as devil's advocate http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2006/01/12/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3386 Ben, as devil's advocate Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:30:42 +0000 http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/index.php/archives/2006/01/the-lily-white-world-of-magazines/#comment-3386 1) Why exactly should magazines care how many brown people are on their editorial staff? 2) For national magazines, why should New York City be used as the diversity benchmark, rather than the country as a whole? 1) Why exactly should magazines care how many brown people are on their editorial staff?

2) For national magazines, why should New York City be used as the diversity benchmark, rather than the country as a whole?

]]>