Are black women undesirable because they have been masculinized?
CVK
There’s an interesting debate brewing at Salon.com, triggered by an article Debra Dickerson wrote, titled I Want You to Want Me.
Dickerson starts off by noting that in “The Wedding Crashers,” Owen Wilson and Vince Vaughn “seduced their way through every culture and every ethnicity but mine”–that is, they don’t sleep with any black women. She then goes on to link this to the fact that–in her opinion–black women are unloved in this country. Much of it has to do with the countless media representations of black women as “harridans,” “harpies” or “bitches.” But Dickerson argues that on a deeper level, it is caused by the masculinization of black women:
It’s a misery to black woman why our strength, the strength that kept our people from extinction and which holds the community together yet, makes us seem manly somehow, as if no white woman has ever roughened her pink hands or survived rape for her family’s sake. Or been a bitch. Why is it so hard to fathom that we can raise our children alone (if need be, rarely by preference), work two jobs and still look good in a miniskirt. Still want to look good in a miniskirt. Sisters are simply not seen as either ladylike or, to put it bluntly, fuckable. Rapeable, certainly, as the history of slavery and Jim Crow prove, just not fuckable.
This “gendering” of race is something that Jen and I talk about in our workshop on the myths and realities of interracial relationships. There’s a tendency in this country for both black men and women to be associated with masculinity, and Asian men and women to be associated with femininity. This gendering is especially obvious when you look at some of the slang used in the gay community. An excellent article by Jason Chang notes:
The use of the term “lesbian” to identify gay Asian men who are attracted to each other is a stunning indication of how many gay Asian men perceive that only white men are “real” men and that Asian men who date each other are therefore “lesbians”–two “women” together. Mainstream society’s stereotyping of Asian men as feminine is raised to a grotesque level in the gay community.
Dickerson’s article definitely struck a nerve. You can read all the letters to the editor Salon.com received, some agree with Dickerson, others disagree. Here are some highlights:
Why is she so preoccupied with white men desiring black women? Does she think that will change the basic conditions that black people face in this society? I mean, white men have proven throughout history that they will fuck just about anything, including farm animals. Has that changed their attitude about people of color in general?
and another perspective…
I don’t understand how your reactions to what you’ve observed about the treatment of black women (and their “unfuckable” appeal to whites) square with the reality of the interracial sexual history of this country. Black women, as you noted, have obviously been raped and fucked by white men before, more often for pure lust or power than for love or emotional attachment. The underlying justification when white males rape black women has long been that black women are sexual addicts and really hot bed partners… And now, you’re upset because black women are not being shown as willing partners to interracial sex without emotional involvement? That is your measure of social progress in this country?
fusskins wrote:
I thought the same thing as Dickerson when I saw the movie, but I believe the producers didn’t include a Black wedding because they honestly didn’t know how to protray white and black people, esp. white men and black women, getting along amicably. The stereotypes in films of white people showing up in black neighborhoods and at black events from “Vacation” to “Road Trip” is almost always adversarial and in a montage, I think they wanted to avoid the initial “awkwardness.” Bullshit and steeped in alot of the history and reasoning that the writer provided, I know, but we have to face facts that most white people don’t think about race the way people of color do. They don’t have to. That’s why they call it white privelege.
As for the gendering of the races, of course it exists, but I have to agree with several of the readers that our (black women’s) pre-conceived notions about interracial relationships are as much of an impediment as the troubled historical legacy of “black femininity” in America.
Posted 03 Aug 2005 at 10:24 am ¶
Debra wrote:
As I posted on another website, I find it interesting that as a 5′1 cinnamon brown woman, I am perceived as “independent”. I always wondered why no one ever offeres to help and up until reading Ms. Dickerson’s article I thought it was for the entertainment value afforded to the people watching me do something that they individually would find impossible. I have always maintained that a woman invented the wheel, lever, pulley, and wedge to accomplish tasks that were physically difficult. Now I realize they were probably black women.
Up until I gained weight I had no problem with “white” men trying to gain entrance to the secret garden, but that was all most of them wanted. I am worth more, so I can wait. I recently lost most of the weight, and all of a sudden I exist as a sexy woman, but still independent. I’m almost 50, look about 35, but the parts are wearing out.
I have a female black pug who people refer to as him and no amount of correction will change my neighbor’s minds. I met a woman with a male white poodle who was irritated by everyone referring to him as her. White = female, black = male. Of course this answers the question why with a DDD bust, I am constanly called “sir”. And here I thought they just weren’t paying attention.
Posted 03 Aug 2005 at 5:32 pm ¶
Patty wrote:
I personally think this is all contrived by the right wing media monopoly. They’ve had this all planned for more than ten years; the old “divide and conquer” routine. They tried it in the 80’s for white men to steal away with black women but black ladies didn’t go for it so now they toast the black man with new access to white women and black guys dived for it. Jealous white guys? Just turn up the volume on the blonde visibility; white man’s kryptonite. That way if any white guys go searching for the comfort of a black woman now that all the black guys get all the action they get a constant reminder of whom they SHOULD be searching for. The Blonde. They are everywhere. You can hardly look at a magazine rack without counting at least 50 blondes on the covers of different mags. Even women who are not supposed to be blonde are blonde: Jessica Alba, Beonce, Aguilera, etc. It’s ridiculous!
Posted 13 Sep 2005 at 10:42 pm ¶
Bobby wrote:
There shouldn’t be any doubt that there is a racial bias in Hollyweird and the media especially as to what is the majority’s definition of “beautiful.” How else to explain the popularity of Britney Spears a very average looking woman.
Gene Roddenberry was a progressive, he had Capt. Kirk being an EOE (equal opportunity employer) to women across all strata, even the green lady. But humor aside, beauty (and ugly) comes in all colors. Too bad the world, exposed to Hollyweird’s movies and other parts of America’s pop culture, i.e. most of the planet, is not able to be exposed to the beauty of black women as per Dickerson’s rant.
Posted 22 Sep 2005 at 10:14 am ¶
Adrian wrote:
Are black women undesirable because they have been masculinized? To answer the question, no. The desirability of black women is in their control not the media’s. When you think of popular black women who comes to mind Halle, Beyonce. What’s masculine about them, nothing.
Do the media distort Black Women? (duh!) The media distorts black people (See the New Orleans footage) Black women do not have a history of being catered to instead it has always been one of doing for self, be it moving a refrigerator, or carrying two babies at one time, in most cases instead of asking for help they simply do it themselves. Does that maculate them? If anything Black Women are over sexualized by the media see any music video on TV and there will be black women shaking it. It has reached the degree that it now influences how whites and Asians see and interact with their women. And finally to Ms Dickerson’s personal issue of why you don’t want me.
“Dickerson starts off by noting that in “The Wedding Crashers,” Owen Wilson and Vince Vaughn “seduced their way through every culture and every ethnicity but mine”–that is, they don’t sleep with any black women.
She got all that from the Wedding Planner, the Wedding Planner? Hey Debra check out Alfie with Jude Law it’s also about a scoundrel and it has a gorgeous sistah (Nia Long) in it too and she ain’t masculine
Posted 23 Sep 2005 at 2:29 pm ¶
Mike wrote:
I feel the need to add a wrinkle to this discussion. I think Debra Dickerson’s field of view or population sample is too limited. I attended a large university in the southeastern part of the US until very recently. I did my undergraduate as well as advanced degree there. Although black-white dating (black male/white female) was common before I got there, what surprised me in the last few years at my school was the frequency with which white male/black female dating was taking place. And here I’m not simply referring to white guys going after the hottest black girls on campus, which has always being with us. It was more like an average-looking white guys dating and average-looing black girls. Is this progress? The answer depends on your values, preferences and host of other issues.
But my main poin is this: If Ms. Dickerson were to take a broader survey of the issue, her characterization of black women as being somehow undesirable in the view of the dominant culture (whether Hollywood or the broader society) would become a lot more complicated.
Regards,
Mike
Posted 27 Aug 2006 at 2:46 pm ¶